[00:00:00] Luke Storey: I'm Luke Storey. For the past 22 years, I've been relentlessly committed to my deepest passion, designing the ultimate lifestyle based on the most powerful principles of spirituality, health, psychology, and personal development. The Life Stylist podcast is a show dedicated to sharing my discoveries and the experts behind them with you. Chris Shade, what's up, man?

[00:00:28] Dr. Chris Shade: Well, just coming down to Austin, get out of my bubble up there in Boulder, and see the world, and see you.

[00:00:36] Luke Storey: Nice, dude. Welcome. It's good to see you again.

[00:00:37] Dr. Chris Shade: It's great to see you.

[00:00:38] Luke Storey: And thank you for coming to do it in person.

[00:00:41] Dr. Chris Shade: Oh, God, I hate this Zoom stuff. I've done a couple of podcasts with different people, and especially when people know how to talk to each other when they have good energy together, you never go off-topic, wherever you are is the topic. And some of these Zoom ones, even when I'm interviewing other people, it's like, they usually would track with me, and then we just—you're tail ending and bringing somebody back to where you wanted to go.

[00:01:07] Luke Storey: Yeah. I mean, I'm grateful for the technology, because I might-

[00:01:12] Dr. Chris Shade: Kept things together in a time where we could have been hopelessly alienated if this was the 80s, but let's get back together.

[00:01:20] Luke Storey: Yeah, I agree. So, thanks for coming out. I forgot to quiz you on what you have in your bag. Every time I see you, when I see you at parties or events, you're always like [making sounds] hey, kid, come here and you have something, kind of, sometimes, above board, sometimes, a little experimental.

[00:01:35] Dr. Chris Shade: Sometimes, experimental. There's some experimental stuff further in there. But whenever I give talks, I love nanoyohimbine. That's the alkaloid of yohimbine.

[00:01:44] Luke Storey: No way.

[00:01:44] Dr. Chris Shade: Oh, yeah. This is such a great central nervous system stimulant. James Maskell, I gave him a bottle, and I do it before I talk, because your word recall is impeccable.

[00:01:54] Luke Storey: Really? 

[00:01:55] Dr. Chris Shade: Everything, right there, you have enough firepower to stage the whole talk up there, and then the words just come down, you never miss anything. And James just texted me the other day, he goes, I love this stuff, it makes me feel so smart. 

[00:02:08] Luke Storey: Can I try it?

[00:02:08] Dr. Chris Shade: Yeah, do three of those.

[00:02:11] Luke Storey: It's not going to give me an irreversible erection?

[00:02:15] Dr. Chris Shade: No. In fact, everybody thinks it does that, it's like a brain erection.

[00:02:19] Luke Storey: Okay. I can live with that.

[00:02:21] Dr. Chris Shade: Yeah. Your forehead will grow a little bit.

[00:02:23] Luke Storey: I got a funny story for you about yohimbine. So, a few years ago, I had some of this, I was like doing a libido experiment, where I was trying to raise my testosterone and all this stuff. So, I got some of the yohimbine HCL extract.

[00:02:38] Dr. Chris Shade: That's what that is, in a nanoparticle.

[00:02:40] Luke Storey: This white powder. I don't really read the directions a lot.

[00:02:45] Dr. Chris Shade: Oh, God, the dosages are miniscule.

[00:02:47] Luke Storey: Yeah. So, it says, take one scoop, I'm like, teaspoon, whatever. I mean, it wasn't a teaspoon, but it was way more.

[00:02:54] Dr. Chris Shade: It was a loy, yeah.

[00:02:55] Luke Storey: It was, you guys, this is a nano-emulsified thing, which is why I'm holding it under my tongue and showing really weird.

[00:03:02] Dr. Chris Shade: Yeah.

[00:03:03] Luke Storey: So, anyway, I didn't even have a date or anything, I was just like, oh, I'm going to just try this out, and I took too much of the yohimbine, and this is a word of warning to anyone listening, it was one of the most uncomfortable experiences of my life.

[00:03:20] Dr. Chris Shade: In the heart?

[00:03:21] Luke Storey: Just my whole body. I lived close to Cedars-Sinai. I almost drove myself to the ER, because I was so uncomfortable. So, I started taking charcoal, went in the sauna. I mean, I was like, I got to get this stuff out of me, and it lasted for a while. It was one of my worst experiments.

[00:03:40] Dr. Chris Shade: That's why I don't sell that. So, you just took about 10 milligrams, right? Whereas, when you took that teaspoon, you probably took a couple of grams. And the reason I don't sell is because it has a narrow therapeutic window, one pump of that feels pretty good. Two feels good. Three feels great. Four, you start feeling a little weird. By five or six, you're sweating, your pupils are dilated, your heart is pounding. And so, that narrow therapeutic window, people screw up with it, like, oh, if one scoop's good, 10's better, because it quickly goes into being way too much of a stimulant.

[00:04:20] Luke Storey: Yeah, that was a bad move. Unfortunately, I didn't learn my lesson and I've had some similar experiences. I mean, part of it is just being an immersive journalist of sorts, and being a guinea pig, and pushing the threshold of things, so I can tell the audience like, hey, don't do what I did.

[00:04:35] Dr. Chris Shade: Yeah. Sometimes, it takes five to six hours, sometimes, two days to come out of it.

[00:04:39] Luke Storey: Yeah. So, word to the wise there. What was the other thing you were pulling out?

[00:04:43] Dr. Chris Shade: Oh, well, this, I mean, that's NAD Platinum, but for the road, I mixed NAD Platinum, The One, and our new membrane mend, which is PC with astaxanthin, and tocotrienol.

[00:04:57] Luke Storey: Oh, wow.

[00:04:57] Dr. Chris Shade: And so, like those, I would take all three of those and I was just carrying on, so I just blended it all together.

[00:05:04] Luke Storey: Nice. What was the other one that had a homemade label?

[00:05:08] Dr. Chris Shade: Oh, this is a bunch of adaptogens that are part of the root of the new product that we're doing, that has astragalosides in it as well, but there's jiaogulan, ashwagandha, licorice, and two types of ginseng. One is a fermented Korean ginseng and one is regular red ginseng root. You want to try some of that, too? 

[00:05:31] Luke Storey: Yeah.

[00:05:32] Dr. Chris Shade: Yeah. You can see it's fucking jacked.

[00:05:34] Luke Storey: Is it?

[00:05:35] Dr. Chris Shade: Yeah. With ginseng, especially the Korean, and you're like, whoa, alright. So, we got to dose some of that.

[00:05:42] Luke Storey: Wow. So fun. I'm glad, I mentioned—wow, a ginseng is strong.

[00:05:45] Dr. Chris Shade: Yeah, we're not kidding there.

[00:05:49] Luke Storey: It's not like when I was a kid, we used to go to Chinatown in San Francisco, and they'd have those little bottles of a root, and it had the flavor, but I never noticed any discernible effect.

[00:05:58] Dr. Chris Shade: Yeah, they probably extracted the damn root, and then dumped the extracted root in the bottle.

[00:06:03] Luke Storey: So, you end up with some fiber and sugar water.

[00:06:06] Dr. Chris Shade: Yeah, that's what those tasted like. And then, there was this little ampoules you'd like crack on.

[00:06:10] Luke Storey: Oh, yeah, forgot about those.

[00:06:12] Dr. Chris Shade: Yeah.

[00:06:12] Luke Storey: Yeah, old school Chinatown stuff. Alright. So, where do I want to start? I want to catch up. I did your 30-day reset right before I left LA, and it was my first cross-country move. First move with a fiancée. Again, guys, sorry about the voice. I'm like-

[00:06:35] Dr. Chris Shade: This is an immersive experience.

[00:06:37] Luke Storey: Yeah. I'm like, you got to give a really long answer, so I can let this absorb. So, hellacious move. I mean, I'm a pretty calm guy, I meditate, I do all the things. 

[00:06:47] Dr. Chris Shade: Moves are trauma.

[00:06:49] Luke Storey: But it was a lot. And so, right before the move, I had the inclination. I want to get my mitochondria firing. I want to have energy. I want to be as detoxed as possible so that I have the mental and physical fortitude to handle this move. So, I did the 30-day reset that your team sent me, and I didn't even read into it too much, I just followed the directions, which were super easy, by the way. Thank you for not making it complicated. It's like, wake up, do this, middle of the day, do this, before you go to bed, do this, like totally idiot-proof. But I really was in such a hurry with the move, I didn't even know what I was doing. I just know that I executed this move with this much grace and focus as humanly possible. So, what was that reset that I did?

[00:07:32] Dr. Chris Shade: So, that is more of a metabolic reset. So, when we do what we call push cat, you'll take liver sauce and binder. Liver sauce is meant to like mobilize toxins, mobilize them through the bile, and then catch them with some binder. But we can use liver sauce or we can use AMPK Charge. Now, that's what we used to call Keto Before 6. That was that product that puts you into ketosis like that. It's an AMPK-activated. It helps you mobilize all of your stored energy, metabolically more flexible, has some autophagy with it. There's some of the liver stuff, but it's more of a metabolism thing.

[00:08:09] Now, we changed the name from Keto Before Six, the idea of that name was that you could be keto all day, just don't eat carbs in the morning, and minimal for lunch, and you'll be in ketosis all day. Do whatever you want at night. So, 6:00, like after 6:00, this guy who had this diet, the Vegan Before 6 diet, eat animal protein at night. But nobody believed it, and all the biohackers were like, I struggle to get into ketosis, I'm not using your witch's cheap trick around it. And so, we couldn't sell it. So, we changed the name to AMPK Charge. And now, it's just an AMPK activator. Now, everybody buys it.

[00:08:46] Luke Storey: Oh, that's funny. I didn't realize those were different, because-

[00:08:49] Dr. Chris Shade: That they're the same, yeah, the same goddamn bottle.

[00:08:52] Luke Storey: Because I have both at home, and in the morning, I take both, so I'm probably taking like a double dose.

[00:08:57] Dr. Chris Shade: You're like, boy, they taste similar.

[00:08:58] Luke Storey: But to the point of that ketosis thing, because I find ketosis really difficult, because it's like the—I mean, carbs are in everything.

[00:09:07] Dr. Chris Shade: Everywhere.

[00:09:08] Luke Storey: Unless you're a carnivore, I mean, it's like, I don't know how people really do it. But I did have a friend in LA. I think they're a Quicksilver distributor, OsteoStrong.

[00:09:17] Dr. Chris Shade: Yeah.

[00:09:17] Luke Storey: My buddy, Frank, and Sarah. And he got the Keto Before 6, this is maybe a year ago or something, and he's like, yeah, and he does quantification and stuff. I don't do that much of that. The ketone blood thing and all that. He's like, dude, so I got this product, and we were talking about how hard ketosis is, and he's like, so I got it and I tested it out.

[00:09:38] And he said, so I took it, and then whatever it was, 20 minutes later, ate a slice of pizza and stayed in ketosis. And I'm like, what? Like flour? Flour is like, you might as well be eating ice cream. And he's like, so then I took it and ate a whole pizza. This is him. And why would he lie to me? He's not trying to sell me anything. And he goes, I ate a whole like small-sized pizza and remained in ketosis after that.

[00:10:03] I'm like, what? So, that's when I started doing it. But then, I started doing it, and eating like ice cream, and cookies, and shit, so I don't know if it worked for me in that regard.

[00:10:11] Dr. Chris Shade: Well, see, the thing is, it's going to keep you burning both paths and being very efficient about it. And maybe you're not quite breaking deeply into ketosis, but you still have some ketones on board that you just pull some of that stuff back for a little bit, you'll pop up in the therapeutic ketosis. The beauty of this is it keeps you running both paths, and that's like the gold standard.

[00:10:33] So, you could be making ketones and burning carb at the same time, was usually your blood sugar has to crash down to like 70 before the ketones come on. Because then, your body senses you're running out of sugar, and then it calls for more. And that calling for more involves moving sugar out of the liver, moving glycogen out of the muscles, converting it to sugar, increasing glucose transporters, and then mobilizing your fat, turning them into ketones.

[00:10:59] But here, you're doing all that at once. So, even if you're eating carbs and taking this, you're still more metabolically efficient. So, that's a part of the 30-day reset, is to make your body a burning machine, not a storing machine, because we usually are only intermittently exposed to lots of carbs as an evolutionary species. And when we have those carbs, then we start storing things in, and that's when you lay down fat and all these things.

[00:11:25] And so, this is just keeping you burning, keeping autophagy up, and just making you very efficient. And that's part of the 30-day reset. Now, because you're burning fat and mobilizing fat, you're also mobilizing fat-soluble toxins, which is why we have you take the binder as well. And then, we put, I don't remember, did you take glutathione with that?

[00:11:49] Luke Storey: Yeah.

[00:11:49] Dr. Chris Shade: So, glutathione is to help you—so this is a detoxification and metabolism at the same time. And then, there's NAD building, too. So, that's built up mitochondria. So, the AMPK Charge is hitting AMPK, it's hitting autophagy and mitophagy, and it's hitting sirtuins, especially if you do a little intermittent fasting, to enable mitochondrial biogenesis. That's all working with the NAD-building. 

[00:12:20] The NAD-building is the basis of sirtuin activation. Then, these things like resveratrol and quercetin, are hyper-stimulating that. But there are also things, there are senolytics in there, like quercetin and resveratrol. And so, you're hitting a lot of different bases through senolytic activity and through autophagy to clean up old whole bad cells and cellular organelles. One of the things that's always interesting to me is, you know what? Mitophagy. That's eating old mitochondria. And then, the flip side of that is mitochondrial biogenesis. That's making new ones. So, how do you know which are the bad mitochondria and which are the good?

[00:13:00] And it comes down to the membranes. As the membranes get depolarized and damaged, they get little markers on them, and then the body knows when it's doing autophagy and it's building these little liposomes within a cell that it puts all these enzymes and acids into to break things down, and it engulfs these bad mitochondria. And then, if you're doing everything right, you'll make new ones as well. And so, that's how that system is set up to detoxify and increase metabolic efficiency at the same time while building mitochondrial health. And that's the reset from like= a little dull and cloudy to clear all that up and shine all that metabolic machinery.

[00:13:43] Luke Storey: Well, whatever it was, it worked, because I mean, I'm looking back, like I don't know how I didn't like have a breakdown during that move. It was a lot, dude. It was a lot. Even just getting out the driving even, you know what I mean? Just like getting smoked from just driving from LA to Texas. And I had this—we hired movers, proper movers to pack and take a semi of all the stuff, but there were things we needed immediately in our apartment, because we're doing renovations.

[00:14:10] So, one of the things that I put in the back of the trailer, we towed a little U-Haul trailer, was this freezer full of grass-fed meat that I had, and the movers wouldn't take it, because it's perishable. So, wherever we stopped, I had to like find a place to plug it in, so it didn't go bad. I don't want to waste, I mean, I respect the animals honestly and the money that the animals cost.

[00:14:31] And so, yeah, I mean, just little things like that, just weird stuff you don't think about, trying to keep my plants alive, they wouldn't take the plants. So, I have to open up the U-Haul and give them some sun. I mean, it's just this whole thing. And I'm like, oh, my God, if I hadn't have been in good shape physically and mentally, it would have been a nightmare. But it was actually pretty fun. So, thank you for-

[00:14:50] Dr. Chris Shade: So, we tuned you up enough for that trip.

[00:14:51] Luke Storey: Yeah. So, thank you for the secret sauce there. It totally worked. On that note, I guess you kind of broke down metabolism in a way, the mechanisms, but zooming out in a bit more broad sense, like what is metabolic energy, metabolism? What are the metabolic diseases that tend to come into play when you don't have a healthy metabolism?

[00:15:20] Dr. Chris Shade: Yeah. So, this all comes into the fed and fasting state. And fed and fasting is really carbs more than anything, because of their insulin generation. Secondarily, proteins, and then fats. In fact, you can eat fats and not change really this fed-fasted ratio. And in the middle of this yin and yang of fed and fasted is a switch called AMPK. So, now, zoom back out, what does that all mean?

[00:15:51] So, as we're evolving as a species, we're hunter-gatherers, and we come upon, oh, here's a bunch of plants, and all the seeds are blooming now. There are fruits there. We're going to gorge. We're going to eat all that stuff. And there's a lot of carbs then, and those carbs create insulin, and insulin drives an anabolic switch forward, and that switch is called mTOR. m, the mammalian. m-T-O-R, the mammalian target of rapamycin. Well, it's a funny name and has nothing to do with its metabolic activity.

[00:16:34] It's because they were using this drug called rapamycin for certain cancers, and it worked really well, and they were trying to find what switch it was working on. It was working on this switch that they came to call mTOR, that when it was blocked from going forward, it pushed the body into autophagy or cell feeding. And so, it would eat back damaged tissue, or unhealthy tissue, or wrongly generated tissue. And in this case, they were tumors.

[00:17:07] So, as they looked into this switch, they found, this was the switch between anabolism and catabolism. So, anabolism is putting on mass, building muscle, building fat tissue, just building, and catabolism is breaking down tissue. Now, in the old days when all we thought about was building muscles, we thought catabolism was wasting away, but catabolism is really pruning the tree.

[00:17:35] It's clarifying your biochemistry by cleaning up damaged goods, by mobilizing fat, by cleaning out plaques, by taking damaged mitochondria, damaged organelles like the endoplasmic reticulum, that as we said before, as they get older and damaged or anything that's weakening them, they get little molecules stuck onto them that say, kill me first. So, it's only during that period where mTOR can either be forward or blocked. 

[00:18:07] And when it's blocked, then you go inward and you clear all this stuff up. So, what drives mTOR forward is insulin and branched chain amino acids. So, when we're eating a lot of carbs and protein, we are anabolic and building. So, old things like you probably remember like muscle milk in the weightlifting days, and it was milk proteins, like weigh proteins and sugar, and that would build you up.

[00:18:36] Now, you build up all the time, and a lot of these guys, they might be all chiseled from weightlifting, but they're going to start developing fatty liver. And then, you start having a lot of damage. You have this chronic low-grade inflammation. And if you're not all chiseled, you're going to be developing abdominal fat and stuff, and you can have chronic low-grade inflammation, what they call as in aging, inflammaging, which is mostly from nuclear factor Kappa B.

[00:19:04] There's good inflammation like when you get sick, acute inflammation when you get hurt. Acute inflammation to remodel things or kill pathogens. But that low-grade inflammation is what's leading to cardiovascular disease. It's leading to neurologic disease. It's opening up the barriers. It's opening up the GI barrier. So, endotoxins coming in, which is then amplifying inflammation. It's opening up the blood brain barrier and endotoxins getting into the brain causing neuroinflammation.

[00:19:34] It's opening up the liver. In fact, we talk about leaky gut, leaky blood brain barrier, there's leaky liver, there are leaky lots of things. You could talk about leaky vagina, too. There are lots of things that just started opening up and the compartmentalization starts going away. How we separate Yin from Yang in the system goes away. And these are functions of a loss of membrane and tight junction formation, because we're taking yin and yang, and acutely separating them and letting them crash back together to create the power of our life. This is most noted in the mitochondria, where the membrane potential is your ability to push protons out to the outside of this membrane, and have them all rushed through ATP synthase, and turn the motor that creates ATP.

[00:20:27] And when the membranes get weak, you can't create those gradients and let them discharge, create them and let them discharge. Those gradients, the membranes are like capacitors with an electrical gradient across them that builds up, and then sparks, and discharges, and drives some sort of enzymatic reaction in the membrane. So, you're losing that ability to do that, you're losing this barrier function, and everything's bleeding into everything.

[00:20:55] In the Tao of the Yin and Yang of our biology, it's acutely separated, white and black, interlaced, and you might think it's gray, but it's not. It's interlaced white and black. And whenever that bleeds into true gray is when we lose all our power. We start going down the tubes. And you see it as the loss of membrane function, a barrier function. And AMPK and NAD activity with the sirtuins that go with it are reestablishing all of that, reestablishing polarity of the membranes, reestablishing the strength of the tight junctions.

[00:21:35] So, everything is remaining separate and you're getting that crashing together of yin and yang into power and not into diffusion. And how do we do that? How do we activate AMPK? Because that is a beautiful and romantic story of the biology I just painted. And where do we do that? You do that, AMPK is activated when you carb-restrict, or fast, or use AMPK activators. The AMPK activators are lots of different phytochemicals.

[00:22:14] In fact, almost all the good chemicals out of a plant are AMPK activators to some degree, but some are more powerful than others. So, this is why a plant-based diet has so—not a plant, what's the term that Mark Hyman used? It's like a plant-rich diet, because the plant chemicals have all these AMPK activators. They have all the fiber for driving the right microbiome. And so, sometimes, we miss why that's good, we think just meat bad, but it's because of that AMPK activity. So, when we keep the carbs down, the insulin goes down.

[00:22:51] When we keep their branched chain amino acids down, even if it's during intermittent fasting, AMPK gets activated, because you use up the ATP, because you're burning carbs, because carbs are cheap and easy to get energy from. And then, all of a sudden, you run out of the carbs, and then the ATP levels go down, and ATP starts releasing phosphorus. It goes from ATP to ADP, which is, so there's adenosine triphosphate, then the adenosine diphosphate, and then AMP is adenosine monophosphate. It's lost all of its energy, and there's a little switch that says, oh, my God, there's a buildup of AMP, we've got to reach into our stores and get all this energy.

[00:23:35] So, that switch is the AMP kinase. It senses the AMP, and then you can supercharge it. So, just the AMP alone gives you this 10x upregulation of it. But then, you can hit it from these two different angles with nutraceuticals or pharmaceuticals, and that's what metformin does. And that's why metformin is something that's used by biohackers as well as Type 2 diabetics. It's able to drive that. And then, the AMPK Charge has some of the best compounds for doing it.

[00:24:07] That's why resveratrol is a fasting mimetic. Berberine is nature's metformin, quercetin, dim, silimarin. all these are strong AMPK activators. Notice, silimarin is a big liver thing. That's all activated and controlled through the liver. So, when you take time to let the carbs go away, and then AMPK activates, and exercise does this, too, because it uses up your free ATP.

[00:24:30] So, exercising, fasting, fasting, exercise, and then throwing in some AMPK activators, you get a very strong activation of AMPK, blocking of mTOR, induction of autophagy and mitophagy, and mobilization of resources, burning up of stored fat in your organs, tightening up of the membranes, tightening up at the tight junctions. That's why fasting is such a healing thing, and we can use our plant medicine on top of it to get more strength out of this without having to go on a four-day water fast.

[00:25:04] Luke Storey: Yeah. I've been toying with the idea of doing a water fast. I used to do juice fast a lot when I would get sick 20 years ago or something, 10 days, 20 days. And then, I kind of stopped getting sick, so I gave on it, because my appetite would go away, and it made it easy to fast, because I don't feel like eating. Oh, there's so much to unpack there.

[00:25:25] Dr. Chris Shade: Yeah, I went pretty far there.

[00:25:26] Luke Storey: That's okay.

[00:25:27] Dr. Chris Shade: And then, we could tie it around to membranes and Bruce Lipton.

[00:25:30] Luke Storey: Oh, that gets my attention. I'll remember where I wanted to pick up. Go ahead.

[00:25:34] Dr. Chris Shade: Yeah. Oh, well, you know, and I didn't even talk about membranes, and intracellular, and cell-to-cell communication. So, when Bruce Lipton talks, he talks about the membrane being the brains of the cell, the membrane. And so, traditionally, it was the nucleus, was the brains of the cell, because it had all the codes for all of the programs that you can run. And the programs that you can run, meaning, I can have high metabolism, I can have low metabolism, I could be regenerative, I can be making klotho, or a generative thing, or I'm not making klotho.

[00:26:06] These are all things that you unpack out of the nucleus that are programs that you can run. And there's DNA for it. So, there's a coding for it. Then, the RNA reads it, the mRNA goes out to the ribosome, and you make some sort of protein. That is really the program you're trying to run. So, the program is usually proteins that you express. So, we used to say, well, they're all in there and we're just expressing what we need to express, but it turns out, we tell the nucleus which of the programs that we want to express. And the cell membrane, like in a cell culture of individual cells, the cell membrane is reading the extracellular environment and judging what kind of resources are available to it.

[00:26:49] Is this a healthy extracellular environment? Is it an unhealthy environment? When it's healthy and there's resources, we take signal, we read the outside, we transcribe signals into the cytoplasm that get carried down into the nucleus to say, which of these programs should we express now? So, that means, from this perspective, before we get into a deeper one, that means, if the cell membrane is seeing a toxic extracellular environment, the extracellular matrix and the lymphatics around it, it's going to say, no, this is a shitty environment and we're going to modulate what we can express.

[00:27:29] And at the worst level, we're going to go into a default survival mode. And some of the speculation around cancer is that it's the ultimate default survival mode that goes totally sideways in us. So, when there's poor nutrition available in the matrix, when there's a toxic load available in the matrix, when the matrix is acidified and stops its ability. So, the extracellular matrix, when you get metabolic acidification, you start gelling it up. It's almost like cooking an egg white, and it can't move things back and forth. So, all this dysfunction in the matrix, then the cell says, well, there's not shit I can do here, and so I'm just going to go into default mode.

[00:28:17] So, that's why German biomedical medicine like Alfred Pischinger and that crew, they're all PhDs, have focused on the extracellular matrix as the healing way. And so, there was extracellular matrix drainage. They figured out that acupuncture all works through cascading signals through the extracellular matrix. And there's this big open antenna like array that of these proteins and carbohydrates in this gel matrix that are cascading signals across it.

[00:28:47] Bill Tiller even found these hyper-ordered ion channels through the matrix. So, at one level, the membranes reading the matrix and putting signals down into the nucleus about what it can do. Now, that was his story 20 years ago. Now, we found out that inside the cell is tons of membranes. So, the mitochondria is just a membrane, one big outer membrane, and a really folded up inner membrane that's creating this potential to make ATP.

[00:29:18] The endoplasmic reticulum is vastly folded layers of membrane, harnessing that membrane potential to drive all these enzymatic reactions that are in the membrane. In fact, all of your hormone translations from cholesterol down to pregnenolone out to the adrenal corticosteroids down to the sex hormones, all those transformations take place in either the mitochondrial membrane or the endoplasmic reticulum membrane. But 30% of the mitochondria, 70 percent in the endoplasmic reticulum, and almost all the proteins are made on the endoplasmic reticulum, just membrane.

[00:29:57] Then, you got the Golgi apparatus. That's making proteins that are mostly being dumped into the extracellular matrix for the fibroblast to pick up and weave the matrix, weave the structure of the extracellular matrix. And then, we find out not only is that all happening, they're all exchanging signals. So, there's signals from the outside to the inside, from the inside of the outside to go cell to cell, and then signals exchange between the mitochondria, the Golgi, the endoplasmic reticulum, all those transduced into the nucleus to say, what should we do?

[00:30:31] So, what programs are available to us are a function, one of the extracellular matrix health and two of the intracellular matrix health and the membrane potential, the amount of mitochondria, what are the mitochondria releasing? Are they releasing pro-inflammatory messages? Like senescence, actually, the signal for senescence is coming from damaged mitochondria. And those signals are going out cell to cell and killing other things. And so, all of this is a membrane to membrane to membrane to membrane discussion, resulting in manifestation of the genes that are either regenerative or the genes that are just saying, ah, just fucking hold it here.

[00:31:12] Luke Storey: So, that's where the Bruce Lipton perspective comes in, of the cell being like almost a replica of the universe. From when you describe this, it gets so intricate-

[00:31:23] Dr. Chris Shade: It's like fractal discussions.

[00:31:25] Luke Storey: Yeah, it's fucking wild. I'm barely hanging on. I'm like, hang in there, Luke, you got this, you got this. One thing that comes to mind, though, I just have to ask you this, it's so interesting, I interview so many different types of people with different ways that they think and taking information. I find talking to you is so fascinating, because when you talk, it's like I'm wanting to see a whiteboard. You know what I mean?

[00:31:51] Like my mind's going, I need to see the drawing of this in order to understand it. So, how do you study and how do you retain the information you learn? And obviously, you're passionate about just understanding the nature of biology, right? But like do you go and study just scientific journals after journals after journals, take it in? Do you write things down? Do you have notes that you keep? Like how do you build this model that you just laid out so elequently?

[00:32:19] Dr. Chris Shade: Yeah, it's a great question. I think slides are my medium for remembering things. I mean, I do write some things down. I do diagram out. Not as much as I used to. I used to use pen and paper more. But now, I give so many talks, where I'm giving lectures, I'm sort of documenting things on slides. And because I say it so often, I'm able to retain, whereas I used to use written that neuromotor activity is magic of of the hands and is really good for memorization.

[00:32:54] But now that I'm sort of building on these dynamics, a lot of it has been retained and I'm adding layers of understanding to it. And then, if you look at my libraries, where at work, it's much more strongly science-dominated. But at home, it's all mystical. It's Dzogchen [indiscernible] Buddhism, non-dualistic Advaita Vedanta. It's Kashmir Shaivism. This Taoism, a lot of that.

[00:33:32] And there's this idea, like, what are we doing when we're doing qigong? We're creating this resonance. We're trying to create this resonant strength in the system. And in the epigenetics that are part of our mind frame, and whether we have resonance in our system or disresonance in our system, we could see that these are probably ways that we strengthen manifestation through consciousness moving through membranes and consciousness affecting to either cohere us or discohere us.

[00:34:11] Because as I go through this, I see the breakdown of the membrane and the separation structures, the breakdown of the separation of black and white into these finely interleaved black and whites, and it breaking down into gray. And I see that in our meditation practice, in our qigong, in our movement. What do we do? We're finally creating discrimination like on a neurochemical level, what are the problems that we have with stress when we get way into sympathetic?

[00:34:47] We see everything as a danger. We're not having discrimination in what's a danger I can act on and one I shouldn't act, like this is mild, it's not a big deal. And we start acting on everything. And then, we start getting into this sympathetic stress. And now, we're in fight or flight. And fight or flight is antithetic to regenerative medicine. It's putting all of your energy into getting away from something and nothing into repair.

[00:35:13] So, in that, so the outward and the inward, you're all outward and you're all freaked out about everything, and you're not going inward and regenerating. So, what do we do in the meditation? We're sitting in our inward space. Now, hopefully, inward and outward are actually in refusing and our awareness is opening up, so we encompass more of the space around us while we calm down our inner space and let our neurotransmitters stop hyper-reacting to everything.

[00:35:43] So, I believe very strongly, and as I go on further and I get a little bit separated from having to run everyday thing in my company, these are the things that I want to develop out programs for. And people like Rudy Tanzi have done so many things with Deepak Chopra, where you put people into retreats and you look at brain function. But I want to look at membrane function and all the biochemical function, and how easily we toggle back and forth between different biochemical regimens when we're given more time in retreat and in these type of reset things.

[00:36:21] Luke Storey: Well, in that part of your dialogue there, it immediately brings to mind the work of Joe Dispenza, having been to a couple of his retreats.

[00:36:30] Dr. Chris Shade: I've heard that name. What does he do?

[00:36:32] Luke Storey: Joe Dispense is a teacher of consciousness, meditation, similar to Bruce Lipton's work, just created a model and practices around that model. And in his retreats, it's really fascinating, I've been to two of them, just life-changing, just the closest thing I've ever experienced to a plant medicine, just completely sober, sitting in the room, doing breathing exercises, guided meditations.

[00:37:01] And one of the things that he does that's very interesting is he has a whole team of scientists in the back of the room, at least pre-COVID. I don't know if he's doing this now. But over the past 20 years or so, he's had all these scientists quantifying brain waves, HRV, blood work, et cetera. And during the exercises, he, over the years, keeps reiterating on the model and on the practices, because he sees the quantification of, oh, my God, this person just went into 200 standard—or no, 400 standard deviations above normal high Gamma.

[00:37:33] I mean, people are having like supernatural experiences just sitting in a chair, doing stuff. Another thing that's interesting about that and it speaks to your kind of inner and outer landscape here in terms of how consciousness affects biology is he has people practicing his work in the retreats and at home in their lives that are reversing irreversible diseases, the things where tumors are disappearing. I mean, crazy shit that's totally unexplainable from the rigid western paradigm of what we can see is real and what we can is not.

[00:38:12] Dr. Chris Shade: Yeah. And so then, I think a lot of these switches have this ability to flip with just the resonant space that you're on. And I think when we're really in a good, healthy flow state, we don't have to intervene so much. These things just happen more naturally when our psyche is more—that's why I think people are going to get—you're going to see people really sick over the next couple of years from this massive stress out of the last two years, that those switches aren't going on and off, we're not going in the right states. And then, I see big blending between taking the right nutraceuticals and the right practices to really hone and really get at the highest levels of our healing and regenerative work.

[00:39:01] Luke Storey: I think that's what's interesting about your work and perspective is you seem to be rooted in the eastern medicine, right? You put Chinese herbs in your formula, but obviously, you're deeply scientific and your researcher. So, I think that's the way forward for us, seems to make the most sense, where you're taking into account the whole entity of a person from the consciousness perspective and the biological perspective, and finding the value in both, because I'm sure there's a lot of people that take great supplements, exercise, have a clean diet, but haven't sorted out their emotional stuff and are going to show negative labs, right? And then, there are probably people out there that are eating like a suboptimal diet, taking no supplements, but are meditating like a beast, and their heart's full of love, and they're open, and have great relationships, and human connection, and are doing great.

[00:39:54] Dr. Chris Shade: Yeah. And that's to really bring those two together, because I see amongst the heavy meditators that I'm around, they need a little boost, they need some of the biochemical stuff. And then, the biochemical people totally need a bunch of meditation. They need to sort this stuff out. A lot of biohackers are guilty of that. It's just like, ah, I'm going to buy a hack my way to health, and they're fucking jonesing about their fight or flight over whether they're doing enough. So, that's an issue. On both sides, it's an issue.

[00:40:26] But one of the funniest things is being rooted in a lot of the Chinese and Ayurvedic stuff, and they would group these things together and call them this kind of formula. And now that we're getting all this data out of primary research on what different plant chemicals do, it's like, now, I'm starting to make formulas. Yeah. Now, I've got some of the traditional tonic medicines, but I'm putting those together with something like resveratrol and berberine, because I want to hit certain switches. And isolating which of these different specific compounds in astragalus, say, is doing this.

[00:40:59] So, we're able to really fine-tune and know, alright, I'm going after this switch and I want to make this energy, but I want adrenal help and I can bring in a bunch of ginseng. And now, I know that ginseng hits these switches and that can bring in curcumin or resveratrol, because I know it hits those switches, too. And I could really design great formulas that have a strong biochemical footing.

[00:41:26] But again, I got a list of 50 things or 100 things that can be AMPK activators, but I know from grounding in Chinese and Ayurvedic medicine which energies I'm trying to bring forward, so I know which of the plants can do the biochemical thing. But then, there are some stuff that we haven't quantified yet, but I know that they'll do that. So, I can bring in adrenal support on top of metabolic support, and I think we're really going to see a lot of effects out of that.

[00:41:56] Luke Storey: When it comes to the mitochondria and the production of ATP, I interviewed Robert Slovak recently, and a couple of years prior, Tyler LeBaron, about two things, about molecular hydrogen and also deuterium. Deuterium, seems to be plenty of research out there to indicate that having all of this heavy hydrogen molecule in your mitochondria gums up the nanomotors and makes it more metabolically expensive, I guess you could say, to produce ATP. Do you subscribe to depleting your deuterium with the water and stuff? I mean, do you think it's-

[00:42:34] Dr. Chris Shade: I've entered a very expensive subscription into the depletion of my deuterium. And so, Robert's actually housed his light water world somewhat at our lab and office. So, the salivary deuterium measurements are done at Quicksilver Scientific.

[00:42:53] Luke Storey: Oh, funny, I didn't know that.

[00:42:54] Dr. Chris Shade: And most of the light water stored in Wyoming is shipped out—or in Reno and shipped out of Reno, but the testing is all done at our office. And so, I get to test my salivary deuterium and watch it come down as I drink all this very expensive water. But the data around is mostly coming out of Russia in Eastern Europe, and it's freaking stellar data. They've got all this work on cancer. And cancer is a metabolic disease.

[00:43:21] And so, if you're trying to make your mitochondria more efficient, you're trying to get into these more autophagic and highly efficient metabolic states, yeah, the deuterium molecules will get into the ATP synthase motor and kill the motor. They'll just block it. And they gum up a lot of reactions and slow down a lot of reactions. In fact, deuterium is used in medicine to slow some things down, so you can label it or quantify it more. It's actually a way to kill you, too. You can poison your whole—you can poison somebody by giving them deuterium until you slow everything down.

[00:44:00] So, it was known in medicine and in biochemistry as ways to just gum up different reactions with deuterium. And some, they just slow down the reactions. But with ATP synthase, it actually destroys the motor. You got to chuck it and make a new one. It's a very precise, intricate motor, costs a lot of energy to make that. So, you're spending a lot of energy to keep up with the same ATP production, because reactions are slowed down and because ATP synthase gets fouled by that and you have to keep making new ones.

[00:44:31] Luke Storey: Got it. Yeah, it's funny what we were talking about before we recorded that I'm doing so many things all the time. Sometimes, it's difficult to quantify what's doing what. Like when I did the 30-day reset. I mean, that was a big intervention, because I was committed and I was doing it every day for a period of time. So, I was like, wow, I feel amazing. But with the deuterium-depleted water and some of these things-

[00:44:51] Dr. Chris Shade: It's slow.

[00:44:52] Luke Storey: It is, but it's difficult to quantify, but at the same time, when I did the testing after a two-month cycle on that deuterium-depleted water, my levels came way down to the point where I guess my body would have the ability to deplete it itself.

[00:45:09] Dr. Chris Shade: Yeah, I don't know that—they talk about all this metabolic water, and then you can keep your levels low. I haven't digested all of that yet, because it's not—we tested everybody around our lab and you have these serious—we're in Boulder County, got all these triathletes and stuff. None of them were any lower than your average person. Everybody was pretty much a function of the water they drink. And ironically, the tap water in and around Boulder, because it's all mountain stuff, the mountain, it's just a distillation process.

[00:45:45] If you're in LA, you have high deuterium water. And as you go into the mountains, the heavy water falls out faster. In fact, that's how they make low deuterium water, these massive 75-foot distillation columns? So, as you get into the Rockies, you've dropped out a lot of the heavy water. And so, we had pretty low deuterium water. It was like 138 to 140, around there. And so, the people who drank only bottled water had higher deuterium than the tap water drinkers. So, really, wanted tap water in like an RO system, and those people are all starting around 140, and then depleting from there.

[00:46:24] Luke Storey: Yeah, I was drinking, for years, my own spring water that I'd get from Big Bear, 8,000 feet, and then a company called Alive spring water got this high-altitude water from Oregon and brought it down. So, I was drinking that forever, and then I had it tested, it was 139. And then, when I tested before I did the depletion, I was at around like 145, which was lower than some people, and I thought it must have had to do with being on spring water for years.

[00:46:52] Dr. Chris Shade: Yeah, that's bringing you down from one fifty that you would be.

[00:46:56] Luke Storey: Right. But here in Austin, there's limestone everywhere, so the springs here suck. They have like really high minerals. So, it's kind of schwag. I haven't figured out the water. Right now, I got the AquaTru RO system.

[00:47:09] Dr. Chris Shade: Yeah. So, that'll take the schwag. You can measure the deuterium of the water—well, just take your AquaTru water, and have that measured, and see what that is, because the AquaTru is nice, because that's just going to take the shit out of the water, but it's not going to change any of the deuterium levels. That's a function of the base water that you're working with. So, it's a question of where that limestone water comes from. Is it blown off the gulf and rained down here in the aquifer, then it's going to be really high? Does it drain down from the Rockies and the Rockies have minimize the deuterium, then it'll be low?

[00:47:43] Luke Storey: Right. Cool stuff. I mean, I'm going to keep doing it. I'm on the subscription for light water, too.

[00:47:48] Dr. Chris Shade: What's your latest number?

[00:47:49] Luke Storey: I haven't tested. I actually am bummed, because it was about two years ago when I did the first round, and then I just didn't want to spend the money.

[00:47:58] Dr. Chris Shade: If I had been thinking about it, I would have brought the little salivary things with me, too.

[00:48:00] Luke Storey: I'll get one, because I-

[00:48:01] Dr. Chris Shade: Me and Traci Duez did that on the podcast when they're doing there.

[00:48:05] Luke Storey: Yeah. I'm on a month in, so I could test now, and then just keep—I think I'm just going to keep going. I mean, as long as-

[00:48:12] Dr. Chris Shade: Just keep going. Well, what you do is you do it intensively, like you try to only drink that for a while, and that depletes you. And then, to keep yourself going, it's like two 16-ounce glasses a day. You don't have to drink just that.

[00:48:27] Luke Storey: Cool. Yeah, it does get expensive.

[00:48:28] Dr. Chris Shade: Yes, it does.

[00:48:30] Luke Storey: But when it comes to health, what else are we going to spend it on? What areas of health and wellness have you seen spike in terms of Quicksilver's product sales or just what you're seeing trends with all of the COVID madness goind on?

[00:48:45] Dr. Chris Shade: Yeah. Well, obviously, immune stuff. And so, we fast-forwarded a bunch of immune products. We made our Immune Charge, which was liposomal C and elderberry with nanoparticles of high doses of D, A, and some balancing doses of K, and tocotrienol. And that was meant to like really quickly boost your immune system. And if you're doing these shots of it, we have these 12-mil shots of Immune Charge.

[00:49:09] And then, the 100-mil bottle and just do a teaspoon a day. So, that, we put out right away. And then, we got into these high-end zinc complexes called zinc ionophores. Zinc ionophores, these are phytochemicals that complex the zinc, and that complex is lipid-soluble, meaning it can passively move through the cell membrane and increase intracellular zinc. Now, normally-

[00:49:38] Luke Storey: Like hydroxychloroquine, right?

[00:49:40] Dr. Chris Shade: So, that was where that all came from, this hydroxychloroquine. When you see like that Jewish doctor, that funny guy out in New York who claimed 98% reversal of COVID, he was using hydroxychloroquine, azithromycin, and zinc, and you had to take the zinc with it, 200 mg of zinc sulphate every time you're taking this other stuff. And eventually, the people said, why zinc?

[00:50:05] Zinc, hydroxychloroquine zinc complexes go right into the cell and intracellular zinc is crucial for the antiviral activity of the cell. It's natural immunological activity. There is some evidence that the virus is blocking zinc transporters, that there seems to be, like what is a symptom of zinc deficiency, acute zinc deficiency? Loss of smell and taste.

[00:50:32] Luke Storey: Oh, no kidding?

[00:50:33] Dr. Chris Shade: Yeah. And so, they may be blocking those transporters. And so, the zinc uptake is really low, and that's part of why the virus is hard to dodge, and hard to get rid of, and why you lose that smell and taste. And so, we used nutraceutical compounds, we used, what did we use? Luteolin, and quercetin, and hesperitin to make complexes. We pre-made the complexes, and then evaporated them down into this lipid matrix that went into a soft gel, and it breaks open in the stomach and spontaneously forms these nanoparticles.

[00:51:18] And then, you get those absorbed into the blood. So, you have these complexes delivered into the blood, and then they can get into the cell. So, normally, when you're taking zinc, first, the plasma levels of zinc go high and it takes about nine to 10 days to get the blood levels of zinc up. That's because, basically, the new red blood cells have to be born under high zinc levels, and then your whole blood zinc goes up.

[00:51:47] So, what we found when we did a little bit of testing with that is you were instantly able to get red, white blood cells zinc levels higher using these ionophores. Now, some people just did the cheap route and they just packed quercetin and zinc, and some use curcumin with zinc salts in a capsule and just hope that, somehow, this was all going to be formed in the stomach.

[00:52:11] But to really make that work, you've got to pre-make stuff, then load it into the nanoparticles, and we saw the difference between those kind of products and this accurately made ionophores and the nanoparticle. And they weren't able to instantly affect zinc levels in the cells. And then, we also made that in a spray, a throat spray, so you can just coat your throat with it, and that'll help with your immune system in that crucial barrier area.

[00:52:37] Actually, there's all this sensing of the immune system that goes on in the back of the throat. In fact, there was a guy, I think this is available, I'm not sure if it is. He was making low-dose interferon and you'd spray, he would call it homeopathic and you'd spray it in the back of your throat. And he was an old physiology guy from the vet medicine world.

[00:52:57] And what they knew there is when you're under an immune threat, you produce interferon in your nose from sensing in your nose, from the microbes coming in, you produce interferon, it goes down the back of your throat. That's part of the light post nasal drip, and the interferon activates sensors in the throat and turns on your whole immune system.

[00:53:17] Luke Storey: Really?

[00:53:17] Dr. Chris Shade: Yeah.

[00:53:18] Luke Storey: Trippy. God, the body is so freaking weird and brilliant. Such a trip.

[00:53:21] Dr. Chris Shade: Yeah. So, given the immune system, that extra zinc in the back of the throat is really wild. And we didn't know how amazing it's going to work, but people just flood in. Like I mean, I've seen it myself. I came back from Miami, first show out, I had a ripping sore throat, and just pop, pop, pop, pop, pop, pop, oh, gone. My son got COVID out of college, and he had a ripping sore throat, and headache, and pop, pop, pop, pop, pop, a day, sore throat's gone. I got to go to the COVID dorm still, but all the symptoms are gone.

[00:53:54] Luke Storey: Wow.

[00:53:55] Dr. Chris Shade: Yeah, he just did that Immune Charge, and it was just done.

[00:53:58] Luke Storey: Wow. Epic, man. What are some other things? I know right now, people are definitely concerned about immune system.

[00:54:05] Dr. Chris Shade: So, it's not just immune health, it's metabolic health. Who are the people that get sick from COVID? They are the people who have bad metabolic health. So, it's diabetes, high blood pressure, heart disease, those people that they talk about that ACE2 receptor that the virus goes in through. So, they all have compromised ACE2 systems. So, there's ACE and ACE2. ACE drives up blood pressure, ACE2 drives it down, and it's the ACE2 part that's damaged with these people that have metabolic problems. And it's already on the edge, that whole system that controls blood pressure.

[00:54:45] And then, when the viruses go through those weakened, they go through those sensing molecules there, and they damage them even further, and they go even further down the tubes. And then, this inflammation runs away. So, metabolic health is a key part of having immune health. And so, there are all these overlaps here. And so, having a good metabolism is going to make you, one, even if you get the virus, it's not going to get in so deep to you and cause so much inflammatory problem. A lot of that's because you have better inflammatory control. And two, part of that metabolic problem is around AMPK.

[00:55:26] In fact, all of it's around AMPK and your failure to be able to induce autophagy very easily, because the deepest levels of immune health involve xenophagy. Xeno is something foreign, so that's why xenophobia is fear of foreigners. So, xenophagy is eating things that got into your system. So, that's taking a virus, a bacteria, a parasite, putting it into a autophagosome. Same thing that we're going to digest a bad mitochondria, we're going to digest this virus.

[00:55:59] We're going to take it apart, and then we're going to make antibodies against these little parts that we've taken out. And then, we're going to secrete those into circulation. And the first wave is an innate immune. The second is the acquired immune. That's when you're going to decimate this and get this virus under control. And it requires that you have good autophagic mechanisms, meaning, you can go from fed to fasted on a dime.

[00:56:25] That means you've got a strong metabolism. So, that means people who intermittent fast are going to be better at handling the virus and clearing the virus. If you're taking AMPK activator, so that's going to pop you back and forth, all these things around that metabolic switch are things around your immunological defenses. So, one is that autophagy, two is ATP production and NAD production.

[00:56:50] The immune cells that are going around and killing things, they're using a ton of energy to generate all these pro-oxidants that are killing things to be able to go, and engulf things, and kill them, they need energy. And that's one of the papers I like is NAD, the hub of the immune system, because NAD is driving the ability to create energy to do these things in the immune system. So, metabolic health is all of those things.

[00:57:17] It's that going back and forth between the metabolic, the fed and fasted, activating autophagy, having ATP generation of being able to mount an attack. So, yeah, acutely, we need these things, these vitamins and herbs that turn up our immune system, but long-term, we need the depths of the immune strength to be this metabolic strength. So, I think the next big wave, and that's why the 30-day reset, that's really an immunological reset.

[00:57:48] Luke Storey: Oh, interesting.

[00:57:48] Dr. Chris Shade: Yeah. And so, the next wave of it for long-term health is going to be metabolic health.

[00:57:55] Luke Storey: Cool. That's interesting. Yeah, I never thought—I mean, I guess I think about if you have low energy in general, that's when you tend to get sick, right? If you're sleep-deprived, et cetera. So, that's the metabolic side of it.

[00:58:05] Dr. Chris Shade: That's the metabolic side of the weakness of your immune system.

[00:58:08] Luke Storey: When it comes to NAD, now, you guys use precursors to NAD, and then people like me will go get a NAD IV or I just found this amazing guy, you guys would get along great, Dr. John Lieurance out of Sarasota, Florida. He's got a company called MitoZen, and he formulates all of these different suppositories. Not a sexy topic, but the thought there is they're formulated-

[00:58:32] Dr. Chris Shade: I'm more of an oral guy.

[00:58:35] Luke Storey: More of an oral guy than an anal guy? So, he's doing these high-dose glutathione, and NAD, and a bunch of resveratrol, and all these things in a suppository with the idea that you're getting this slow release, and you don't have to deal with the GI tract and stuff like that. When it comes to exogenous NAD, is there any risk of slowing down your own body's innate ability to produce it? Like something like different hormones that people take and you're kind of signaling to your body, going, oh, you don't have to make that anymore.

[00:59:06] Dr. Chris Shade: Yeah, you take superphysiological amounts of testosterone more than your testicles are making at the time, it shuts down your testicular function, you stop making luteinizing hormone, follicle-stimulating hormone. You stop making sperm even though you make semen. So, there are all these examples of that. We don't think that that's happening with NAD, at least in the precursor field, but it is something that I want to look into very specifically.

[00:59:33] We're just starting to have the NAD analysis available. There's a place called Genfinity in Georgia that's doing it. We're doing a 50-day study right now using a three-month intervention, very similar to the metabolic reset, but dragged out in the three months where the first month's more detox, the second one is more metabolic, the third is more purely mitochondrial. And we're looking at epigenetic age before and after, and different parts of epigenetics of your metabolism, and these biomarkers, including klotho, AMPK, mTOR, mNAD. 

[01:00:16] And that's basic NAD analysis world, so there's people like Jim McClellan, James McClellan, in our lab, where we're trying to look more into using mass spec for the whole NAD metabolome, so we can look in and see, how are we monkeying with that? Because the key thing that gets blown out is this enzyme that takes nicotinamide up into NMN and that gets blocked by inflammation. It's called NAMPT. And so, we're trying to circumvent that by putting in NMN, nicotinamide nucleotide, or NR, nicotinamide riboside, and that being enzymatically converted into NAD.

[01:01:00] And that enzyme, that doesn't seem to get blocked so much. But we do that, or you go and you do IVs of NAD, but there's some questions around that, because there's no transporter to bring NAD into the cell. There's transporters to bring NMN and NR in, used to be, they said, NR is the only on with the transporter, but NMN has one, too. But NAD doesn't have that, and there actually might be a bit of a cell danger response aspect of having all this NAD flood into your system, because it would say that you just broke up with a bunch of cells and released all this NAD.

[01:01:34] So, some people worry about that, the early NAD, then there's balancing with methylation. So, early NAD, you go and you take a couple of grams of NAD, and two buddies would go in and see which one can remain standing after, it just made you feel like absolute hell, and you like shit and pissed yourself like, oh, my God, take it out, I got to go to the bathroom.

[01:01:59] And everybody, of course, what does everybody say when you feel like shit? Oh, you must be detoxing. And yeah, one hand, detox is limited by how much ATP you can drive. So, if you're driving NAD, you're driving ATP, all of a sudden, you can get rid of all kinds of stuff you didn't get rid of before. But a lot of the negative effects were imbalanced with methylation. So, the way it works, NAD goes and activate sirtuins.

[01:02:22] It activates PARPs for gene repair. It activates CD38 for time junction repair. Great. Now, it's got all this energy built into it, and it releases these high energy phosphate bonds, and you're left with nicotinamide. That's one of your forms of B3. So, all this is B3 cycling, right? So, there's nice and a nicotinamide. So, nicotinamide is the breakdown product of NAD. But nicotinamide, when it pools up, inhibits the sirtuins, and the PARPs, and the CD38s.

[01:02:52] So then, you have to move the nicotinamide either back up to NAM or NMN, and then to NAD, or you've got a methylate it, move it out of the system. So, if you're jacking a lot of precursors or NAD in the system, you're going to build up a lot of NAM, and it's going to block your progress. So, you're going to use methyl donors to pee it out. You make methyl nicotinamide and your donor there is CME.

[01:03:22] So, CME is your big methyl donor, it's a big part of having enough methyl groups, a big part of genetic health and neurological health. And when you methylate the nicotinamide, you're left with homocysteine. First SAHs, S-adenosyl-homocysteine, then homocysteine. And so, you start building up homocysteine. Homocysteine, so cardiovascular problem. It's a risk to neurological health, because you don't have enough methyl donors. And so, when you're just jacking in NAD, you actually create a methylation deficit.

[01:03:51] Luke Storey: Oh, interesting.

[01:03:52] Dr. Chris Shade: So, that creates all these problems. So, people would start taking NR. They'd start doing NAD IVs and feel freaking amazing. And soon, they crash, and then your low methylation, then you start having histamine issues, you start having allergic reactivity and depression. And so, you need to balance NAD boosting with methylation. And so, you have to regenerate SAM-e, and that involves the methionine cycle and the folate cycle.

[01:04:28] And so, you need trimethylglycine, you need B2, you need methyl B12, and maybe a little B6, B9. And so, now, people know that. Now, they're balancing those two. The easiest way is to trimethylglycine or betaine. And so, that's in our products. We like to balance all those things. So, when that's all done right, it's fantastic. So, the way I've gone is to use NMN, liposomal NMN and liposomal methylation, pro-methylation vitamins, and then some sirtuin activators, either when I'm taking The One, or AMPK Charge, or in the NAD Platinum, there's some of that.

[01:05:13] So, what we need to do then, back to your question, is we have to measure the whole metabolome and see which of these interventions is it bringing it all up and which is it breaking down? And there's a great paper that I love to lecture from about methylation and NAD together that was part-biochemistry, part-anthropology, looking at different civilizations that had different balances between NAD-building and methylation. And they were talking about neurodegeneration from either having more methylation than NAD or more NAD than methylation. So, more NAD than methylation, methylation deficits, more NAD than methylation is a certain type of Parkinson's disease that you get from low methylation.

[01:05:51] Luke Storey: Wow. Low methylation with high NAD. 

[01:05:52] Dr. Chris Shade: With high NAD.

[01:05:52] Luke Storey: Wow.

[01:05:52] Dr. Chris Shade: Yeah. And then, high methylation, low NAD is pellagra type that's B3 deficit. That's a different type of Parkinson's. And so, they both show the same problem with damage to the mitochondria of the dopaminergic neurons, but they come at it from different excess versus deficiency.

[01:06:30] Luke Storey: Interesting. So, from your perspective then out of that, I'm gathering that you think combining the methylation and the precursors to NAD, safer, more safe long-term.

[01:06:42] Dr. Chris Shade: Safer long-term. And you can go in for four IVs and just boost the whole thing.

[01:06:46] Luke Storey: Right. But maybe that would be something that you want a pulse and not do all the time.

[01:06:51] Dr. Chris Shade: Yeah. Not too often and maybe go in with taking extra trimethylglycine or Methyl Charge before you go in for the IV, so it doesn't hit so hard. I interviewed Matt Cooke. Have you ever interviewed Matt?

[01:06:54] Luke Storey: I'm about to. I was going to, and then the travel got restricted, and I left California, but I think I'm going to go out in July, yeah.

[01:07:09] Dr. Chris Shade: Oh, yeah. So, I went out there, because I was out there for some biohacker congress. And so, I went down and interviewed him, then went to his house and stuff, and he talked about it all. He said, oh, yeah, in the beginning, we were just doing these multi-gram IVs of wasting people out. Now, we might do 100, 200 milligrams and load them up with trimethylglycine before that, so he knows the best into all those things. He's hip to the whole thing.

[01:07:31] Luke Storey: Oh, cool. Yeah, he seems like a bright guy.

[01:07:32] Dr. Chris Shade: Oh, he's a very bright guy, yeah. He's wonderful, big heart. He really just wants to help, but he's doing all the cutting-edge stuff.

[01:07:40] Luke Storey: What was I going to ask you about? Okay. So, the NAD. Oh, there was a couple other things around that. Let me see. Oh, going back to the immune function. So, we talked about metabolic health, not just trying to boost the immune system in the classical sense, but having the metabolic energy to support the immune system, break down how the gut is critical to the immune system, because I think that's something that a lot of people miss. They got leaky gut, they have dysbiosis, and they're more susceptible due to that, might not even be aware that that's so critical.

[01:08:18] Dr. Chris Shade: So, here, there are so many levels at which the gut's doing this, but they say like 70% of your immune systems in the gut. So, the gut, you're reaching into the food that's coming through the gut, and you're sort of tasting it all, and seeing what you have to alarm to, what you don't. So, this sort of normalcy of response of the immune system, that discrimination of friend or foe, what to react to, what not to is anchored in the GI tract.

[01:08:52] And then, there's all this, when we talk about leaky gut, what's happening there is the tight junctions between each cell in the intestine. So, cell, cell, cell. They're very tight and the dendritic cells have these parts of their immune system that reach out and taste everything. And then, they're deciding where we're at. Now, what we don't want is to break open those junctions.

[01:09:17] Then, what's called endotoxin, which are little pieces and parts of bacteria start getting into circulation. And they're pro-inflammogens. They're winding up inflammation. So then, your immune system is on, talk about fight or flight, you've got your immune system in fight or flight, thinking that there's a septic infection. So, it's winding up inflammation through the whole body that's causing all kinds of damage to the body.

[01:09:44] It's lowering detoxification. It's lowering free radical control. Because when you turn up inflammation, you turn down antioxidant activity, because inflammation is a pro-oxidant endeavor, where you're making peroxides, and hydrochloric acid and stuff, and you're throwing this all at these microbes. So, your body goes into a pro-oxidant thing, and it's all freaking wound up, and it's sort of sounding the alarm at everything.

[01:10:15] And then, it may miss the specific things that are happening, like this viral infiltration, like chronic Lyme, like chronic biofilm infections, and it's just lost in just sort of pouring free radicals all over the place. So, having that barrier integrity between the cells is going to keep your immune system on task. Now, we talk about the microbiome as if it's controlling everything in our body, and it's controlling inflammatory states and stuff, and it is controlling, but it's a bidirectional thing.

[01:10:56] We also control our microbiome. And the stronger our immune system is and the better those barriers are, the more we can control the microbiome. So, the breakdown of the barrier, whether it's from bad microbes, or bad pro-inflammatory allergenic food, or not being in enough fasting state, not enough AMPK, that's where that whole barrier breaks down.

[01:11:22] Remember again, that separation of inner and outer breaks down, and all this chaos starts ensuing in the body on a number of different levels, but very strongly immunologically. And so, one of the beauties, once you start getting—the people who get super reactive to food, they get super reactive to every single thing that they take. Now, AMPK activity, and sirtuins, and NAD are going to minimize that hyperactivity, and glutathione will do that. But often, they're in such a state that you can't give them anything that they won't react to. And the only choice then is water fasting.

[01:11:58] Luke Storey: Really?

[01:11:59] Dr. Chris Shade: Because in the AMPK activation, part of it is the tight junctions. The other part is controlling the immunogenicity or the immunoreactivity to foods, this tendency to wind up inflammation. Oh, my god, that's, remember, deciding what's good, what's bad? All of a sudden, everything's bad. Everything's bad. That's a fight or flight, right? So, the gut's, ah, everything's bad, everything's bad. The only way to control that is good AMPK activation. But if everything's bad to the food and the medicines that do that, then the only choice you have is to fast.

[01:12:37] Luke Storey: Wow. Interesting. I never heard that. So, if someone's experiencing leaky gut dysbiosis, all of this, water fasting, you think, would be the fastest, and no pun intended, heavy hitting first step to-

[01:12:49] Dr. Chris Shade: Fastest slip.

[01:12:50] Luke Storey: Wow, that's cool.

[01:12:51] Dr. Chris Shade: Whereas, long-term, definitely intermittent fasting, AMPK activator, stuff to soothe, all the licorice root, marshmallow roots, slippery elm, ginger, the AMPK activators, all that stuff led the probiotics. All that stuff, long term. But the strongest intervention is nothing.

[01:13:11] Luke Storey: That's so cool. That's so cool. What a gift for someone listening, because a lot of people have issues with that. With the leaky gut, what about glyphosate that's so prevalent in the food supply-

[01:13:21] Dr. Chris Shade: Yeah. So, glyphosate breaks down tight junctions, according to the work that was done by Zach Bush. And glyphosate is also a neuroinflammogen, so it activates neuroinflammation, and that flips you into sympathetic, or fight or flight, and that's going to continue the spiral of degeneration in the system. So, glyphosate is a real issue. I don't know at what level it's burning everything up, is it high concentrations? Because there's a background in everything right now. It's all over the freaking place, organic or not.

[01:14:03] Luke Storey: When I interviewed Zach, he told me something so disturbing, and he said that one of the prevalent practices in growing wheat is that when they want to harvest the wheat at its peak, they'll spray it with glyphosate to dry it out, or something to that effect, like not just to use it as the herbicide, or pesticide, or whatever that it is, but actually, they spray extra on it to actually kind of cure the wheat when they cut it.

[01:14:31] Dr. Chris Shade: Yeah, no. I know they were doing that to like kill all the weeds before they cut it, so it's like a nice, clean thing.

[01:14:38] Luke Storey: Maybe that's what it was. 

[01:14:38] Dr. Chris Shade: Yeah, so it's easier to separate the wheat from all the other stuff out there.

[01:14:38] Luke Storey: Maybe that's what it was. It was just like at the time of harvest, he said, they'll do a huge dump, so that pretty much any wheat product you use that's not legit organic is going to be loaded with it. He claimed that as one of the main offenders. So, needless to say, anytime Alyson, because she likes gluten. I like it, too, my body just doesn't so much, but anytime she's eating bread, I'm like, Luke, don't be a control freak, shut up, don't say anything, because you hear things like that and you can't get it out of your head.

[01:15:14] And coming from someone who's done the research, not just like a meme that got spread around the internet, it makes a little more meaningful. On that note, I want to get into the detox and one of the questions I want to ask you, I know you guys do a lot of testing in your lab, I've done your tri-metals test, which was shocking at the time, because I found a lot of metals got rid of them, though, doing all your stuff. Is there a test that is definitive for glyphosate levels, A? And B, if someone found that they've been laden with glyphosate, is it the same detox process that you would use for everything?

[01:15:53] Dr. Chris Shade: Yeah. I think it's Great Plains Lab. They've got ENVIROtox Panel and they have glyphosate panel. I would think Doctor's Data would have one by now, but definitely Great Plains has that. And I've heard a lot of people saying, oh, yeah, my glyphosate levels are high, and then I did your detox and it went down. So, the core of our detox is this push catch. It's this liver sauce, that AMPK blocker, NRF2 activator, and bile flow generator. So, the toxins leave your liver with bile.

[01:16:24] And so, if you're coli-static, meaning you have impaired bile flow, you're going to have impaired toxin flow. And so, over the years of developing our detox programs, we found that we have to synchronize all of the cellular detoxification reactions with bile flow. And so, that's what the liver source does. And that's why we have a lot of different bitters, formulas, and stuff. So, liver sauce synchronizes those two, dumps the toxins with the bile, it's absorbed so fast, it does that, and a half hour later, you take the binder, which is a mixture of different binders. It's charcoal, and zeolite, cytozen, IMDR metal binder, and some gums for the GI lining. So, that's the basic thing.

[01:17:10] And then, if we're going after metals, we'll add in glutathione and maybe EDTA for going after mold, add in, it would definitely put in some more glutathione. With that, we can modulate that if there's a lot of anxiety and neuroinflammation, we'll add CBD in with it. If we want membranes, we'll add more PCs. But that base system of push catch, that is activating a whole family of detox genes, so it's not specific to metals. And so, it moves everything out of the system. And so, if you want a pretty broad spectrum thing, you do push catch with PC and glutathione, and you really get most of everything, and PC is phosphatidylcholine, that's building the membrane.

[01:17:56] So, what do we talk about? The membranes and the strength of the membranes. And in the liver, the liver membranes are always donating PC into the bile flow, so they're always losing PC. So, feeding PC in is helping the liver really move a lot of toxins out and keep it so strong. It's building the mitochondria and all those membranes, and getting that power into the system. And we just started new PC product called Membrane Mend that is sunflower phosphatidylcholine. And all of our phosphatidylcholines, just people who sell PC that they're just selling lecithin. 

[01:18:30] But lecithin that comes from seed pressing has about 15% phosphatidylcholine. We get 90-plus percent phosphatidylcholine in injectable grade from a German manufacturer that always made the injectable PC, and they sell injectable PC to pharmaceutical companies. Well, very high grade, I've been there. It's Sunflower PC with Omega—we want a little Omega-3, because sunflower PC is Omega-6. So, we started using Ahiflower, which is the highest Omega-3 plant oil, even taste a little fishy. It's higher than flax. So, those two in a four to one, six to three ratio with the best fat-soluble antioxidants.

[01:19:10] So, this is where we need carotenoids and plant-based antioxidants, is for inside the membrane. In the cytoplasm and inside the organelles, we make glutathione superoxide, dismutase, we make the water-soluble ones, and then we exogenously bring in vitamin C, but in the membranes, using carotenoids and tocopherols. And so, we use astaxanthin, which is the best of the carotenoids, and tocotrienol, which is the best of the tocopherols. And so, that's all in this stuff called Membrane Mend. And it's so beautiful when you take it. It's beautiful red. It actually gives you a little bit of a tan look.

[01:19:49] Luke Storey: Because of the astaxanthin?

[01:19:50] Dr. Chris Shade: Astaxanthin that goes into the skin, and that's also solar-protective. It's to protect against acid deposits in your skin. It's a sunscreen for you.

[01:20:00] Luke Storey: I'm so glad you verified that, because I've experimented on fair-skinned friends of mine, that I'm like sun worshipper, right? I'm always out in the Sun. Vitamin D levels are typically pretty good as a result. And again, you hear different memes in the health and wellness scene. And I heard that about astaxanthin, and I've tried it on some of my Irish buddies and whatnot, and that and chaga tea, like a really thick chaga tea, because chaga's got D2 in it. And so, I get them on astaxanthin and chaga tea every day, and they build up their solar callous super fast, and can hang out in the sun with us, all of sun folks. So, it works, but you're the first super smart guy I've heard actually indicate that as well.

[01:20:48] Dr. Chris Shade: Yeah. Well, it's becoming a big thing, because sunscreens are being made illegal around the world, because it's actually the sunscreens that are leading to the collapse of the great reefs, because they use solar energy and all this PABA is depositing on them.

[01:21:05] Luke Storey: Oh, is that why?

[01:21:07] Dr. Chris Shade: It's why, and they can only live in this really fine depth between the top of the water and them to get exactly the right solar energy. Any more, they bleach, and any less, they die of not having enough sun. And so, the PABA is like sinking them down under the water, because it's blocking the UV from getting in there.

[01:21:30] Luke Storey: I didn't know that. I thought it was just because there's toxic whatever.

[01:21:34] Dr. Chris Shade: No, it's killing the Great Barrier Reef. And so, it's becoming illegal in places like Australia and spreading very rapidly to other areas. And so, you need more natural sunscreens. In fact, I'm working on a project with my friend, Lauren Bramley, who is a great doctor, usually a hormone doctor, but she's always loved astaxanthin, because she gives it to all of her patients and they all look better. And she quotes a study where 30 days on astaxanthin and your physical attractiveness increases. They take these people and they have people judge them, swipe left, swipe right type of thing.

[01:22:09] Luke Storey: Oh, that's funny.

[01:22:09] Dr. Chris Shade: And astaxanthin, you start swiping whichever direction leads to the keeper.

[01:22:09] Luke Storey: That'll be the new quantification in alternative medicine, is like a tinder swipe.

[01:22:09] Dr. Chris Shade: Yeah, the Tinder swipe, what's your Tinder swipe? Oh, I had a 30% Tinder shift.

[01:22:22] Luke Storey: That's funny. Wow, what a trip. Okay. Then, what about—oh, I know what I want to ask you. When it comes to detox, when I first, back in the 90s, I was extremely toxic. I was doing tons of drugs, drinking like a fish, and just was a mess, so sobered up and started realizing, I thought I was going to feel better when I sobered up, and I didn't, because I was so toxic. I mean, I just ate garbage, and just was smoking and snorting all kinds of stuff. Who knows what-

[01:22:51] Dr. Chris Shade: The rockstar days. I finally understood it, because I knew that about you, and I was like, The Life Stylist. I kept thinking of stylists, I'm like, this guy's always well dressed, and I read your bio, and I was like, oh, he actually was a stylist-

[01:23:03] Luke Storey: I was, yeah.

[01:23:04] Dr. Chris Shade: ... of actors in LA, hence all the drugs.

[01:23:06] Luke Storey: Yeah. And half the time, it's funny, I think back, and I mean, it's sad, but tragically funny at the same time. But you take something like crack and you get it on a street corner, someone spits it out of their mouth, same with street heroin, and sometimes, it didn't do anything. So, it wasn't the thing, didn't smell like the thing, didn't taste like the thing, didn't have the effect, and that happened quite a lot. So, I can't help but wonder, what was the thing? You know what I mean? Like what kind of shit was I putting in my body? Not just the drugs that are actually pure, and also bad and toxic.

[01:23:40] Dr. Chris Shade: But the bad ones.

[01:23:42] Luke Storey: Yeah, but I mean, just-

[01:23:44] Dr. Chris Shade: The excipients, the cutters.

[01:23:45] Luke Storey: The excipients, all that stuff. Like Mexican tar heroin, I don't even know what that shit is. Some people say it's like baby laxative. There's all kinds of weird theories.

[01:23:52] Dr. Chris Shade: Well, yeah, up the nose is baby laxative, and cutting in there, and then like cocaine, it was probably mostly speed with all these cutters. It was like, I only had a real cocaine when I was down for stem cells in Colombia, I was in Medellin for stem cells. And so, somebody is like, well, you got to try this shit. And I was like [making sounds] , it was like, oh, my God. This is like the ultimate nootropic. This is the best shit in the fucking world, good thing I don't live here, because I never liked cocaine, because it was always just cut speed with toxins, and I was like, oh, geez, I wonder what the fuck is in that stuff up north?

[01:24:34] Luke Storey: Yeah, we always said in LA, your coke was about 90% not cocaine. When I was a kid, another kind of tragic story, but when I was quite young in the area that I grew up in Northern California, there were a lot of drugs, kind of all the hippies went and settled up there in the '70s after they left the hate and stuff, and I was able to procure cocaine at a pretty young age, nine, 10 years old.

[01:24:59] Dr. Chris Shade: Oh, Jesus.

[01:25:00] Luke Storey: Yeah, I know. It's where I've had a weird life. So, that was my introduction to it. And it was just this euphoric, I mean, you just felt like you're on top of the world. I used to listen to Black Sabbath Snow Blind with my Walkman, riding my skateboard, just going cocaine. Yeah. And then, some years later, moved to LA, and, well, let's get some coke, man. And I'd be like, what is this? You guys, it doesn't even numb your face.

[01:25:24] Like what is happening? Anyway, I digressed. The whole point there is I was in dire need of detox. This is pre-Quicksilver push catch, sophisticated system. So, I found this guy named Dr. Richard Schultz, who was like a raw food vegan, like a student of Dr. Christopher, like old school American herbalist. And he made great formula, still does, the American Botanical Pharmacy. So, they do gallbladder flushes, and juice fast, and all this stuff.

[01:25:54] But his primary focus, the first thing he'd get you on was bowel cleansing. So, you take this kind of bentonite clay, and then you take these herbs, these laxative herbs, and you'd increase the number of herbs every day. And his theory was, you don't want to start detoxing the organs, the alimentary organs until you make sure that you're actually regular and you're doing the final push or the final catch.

[01:26:23] Dr. Chris Shade: It's not just the chip coming out, actually, there's a lot of transporters that are dumping toxins into the GI, and they get all, especially back in the day, they would talk about that tire tube of rubberlike stuff coating that, and you've got to clear that away, and get that transport system, so it's dumping all of those toxins in there, and that the colon, the lower area, that's all of this lymphatic tissue, that's where you're kind of doing a plasmapheresis down there. So, you've got to clear all that out. And that's why all those binders, like the clay was the classic one, and that goes back to, Michel Abehsera was a French naturopath. He did tons of work on clay through the GI maybe a hundred years ago.

[01:27:11] And so, those guys are doing that. I mean, it's a great, great path. And I have one crazy paper that was like published in some obscure journal, and they were giving mice charcoal for their whole life and the ones that were taking charcoal lived longer than the ones that weren't. And they called it a third or a fourth organ of elimination. And we're increasing the body's ability to remove metabolic toxins. This is at the same time, where like doctors and stuff are saying, if you have a liver, then you're detoxifying fine. So, that was your start, was that classic GI-based clay and herb thing?

[01:27:54] Luke Storey: Yeah, and then a lot of colonics. I went to Hawaii, this place, Angel Farms, and did like a two-week gravity-fed colonic with ozone, and all kinds of herbs and stuff.

[01:28:02] Dr. Chris Shade: You were just linked up there for two weeks?

[01:28:04] Luke Storey: Yeah, totally. No, it was like, you're on the table for two hours a day, and then at the end of each, there's maybe six or eight people there. And it was like gross, but also really interesting thing. If somebody came out of their little station, and everything that came out of you be like in a tub afterward. And so, you couldn't help but peek in there and you would see some people with those tubes you described, like this whole like kind of mucosal lining kind of thing would come out, but some people would have huge parasites. I mean, it looked like a freaking gardener snake. So, someone would come out of the room, you guys, look what I got, we all kind of reluctantly go in there and like poke it with a long toothpick, the little stick, and I didn't have any of that coming out, but there was, I mean, not to be gross, but I mean, just black sludge from God knows when. 

[01:28:52] Dr. Chris Shade: Not to be gross-worthy there.

[01:28:53] Luke Storey: Yeah. So, back to your method of detox to push catch, where you're exciting these organs, your liver, et cetera, and then dumping those toxins, I mean, do you recommend that someone prior to doing that goes and has a series of colonics, or does any of that stuff?

[01:29:12] Dr. Chris Shade: That would be a really good thing to do, and it would really help. You can't set the bar too high, because then people won't do anything, like you get somebody to agree to do two weeks, two hours a day on the colonic table, when are they actually going to pull the trigger on that?

[01:29:30] Luke Storey: Yeah.

[01:29:31] Dr. Chris Shade: Five years later or when they think that it's going to be a laxative-based detox, because they're all like, oh, it's a detox, I have to be close to the bathroom. And so, it's like, no, not necessarily. So, here, we're working from mobilizing stuff out of the liver, and catching it there, and then cleaning as much as it goes through of the colon out as we can. But we're not getting down to that level.

[01:29:55] I mean, we probably are, to some degree, slowly breaking down those big tubes of biofilm down there, but that is sort of—so there's the upper GI detox and the lower GI detox. So, think of the upper GI detox as the primary chemical detoxification zone. And that's where all these transporters that move toxin conjugates, they're all going through the liver, and they're also along the upper GI.

[01:30:22] And as you get progressively farther down the GI, you have less and less of this chemical detoxification, more and more buildup of this big microbiome and its control. And then, a lot of this water exchange going down in the lower GI. So, lower GI at the most high level of doing colonics, it's more like plasmapheresis, like cleaning up your plasma.

[01:30:46] And at the upper end, it's more of this chemical detoxification. So, if you do both, that's absolutely the best. And doing that cleanup on the lower GI will help the whole body start dumping everything. But we found that you can go in, you get this upper GI thing working, separate from doing the lower GI work, and it will help it, but yeah, it would always be best if you do colonics, too, but you don't have to.

[01:31:11] Luke Storey: Okay. Onto heavy metals, because I know this is an area of expertise of yours. And as I said, I did the tri-metals test, and then I did-

[01:31:20] Dr. Chris Shade: Yeah, the mercury tri-test and the blood metals panel, those two.

[01:31:25] Luke Storey: And so, even though I had done tons of detoxing and stuff like that, I still had a bit more mercury than I would like, which is none. And then, I had high lead from God knows what. And so, I did the your black box, and then retested, and I was like, holy shit, it worked, like they were lower. I mean, like well within passable normal person-

[01:31:45] Dr. Chris Shade: Yeah, like I can deal with that.

[01:31:46] Luke Storey: Yeah, normal person standards. So, I guess, let me see how much time we got here.

[01:31:52] Dr. Chris Shade: Twenty minutes.

[01:31:53] Luke Storey: Okay. That's just right. So, what are some of the common sources of mercury, and why is it bad for you or even all, nickel, lead, mercury? Would those be the three kind of prominent?

[01:32:06] Dr. Chris Shade: Well, there's your four majors, mercury, cadmium, arsenic, and lead.

[01:32:10] Luke Storey: Oh, okay, cadmium and arsenic.

[01:32:12] Dr. Chris Shade: And then, in the second tier, you've got nickel, thallium, gadolinium, and uranium.

[01:32:18] Luke Storey: Okay. So, how are we getting metals into our body in this like widespread sort of epidemic of people just being high in metals and all of the cascade of other problems that come as a result?

[01:32:33] Dr. Chris Shade: Yeah. So, let's go into mercury cadmium and arsenic, and we'll pull that out. Those are food and water-based exposures and dentistry. So, mercury, you've got this silver amalgam fillings. It's probably arguably the worst form, because it's a metallic form of mercury that mercury is that liquid metal, so it's got a vapor phase coming off of it. So, there's a vapor phase coming off it, you're inhaling it, 80% uptake across the lungs into the blood.

[01:33:09] And that form, the vapor can go anywhere, and go into the blood. I mean, across the blood brain barrier, can go into the joints, to all kinds of stuff. And then, after a couple of minutes in the body, it oxidizes and breaks down into inorganic mercury. And that's where it's toxic. So, we can get locked into the brain and have toxic effects there. It can go just about anywhere. Then, you got fish.

[01:33:33] So, fish is a more mobile form. It can kind of go into the brain, out of the brain. It can kind of go around more. It's a little less toxic at a cellular level, but it's really bioavailable. You get 95% uptake of mercury from the fish. So, you got to choose fish that are lower down the food chain. That's all a food chain thing. Shark, top of the food chain, highest level. Swordfish, right next to it. Really big tuna, right under that. You eat from there, you're going to get mercury-toxic, like Tony Robbins did, like the CEO of IMAX.

[01:34:02] Tony figured it out, detoxed with me, and got everything down before he had permanent neurological damage. The CEO of IMAX was, I will say, arrogant, because I met him, he's an arrogant motherfucker, and he stopped eating fish, and his levels came down, he was at the same level as Tony, but he walks with a cane now. He had permanent neurological damage, and when I suggested detox, he'd just kind of brushed it aside. Well, choose the cane. And so, those guys were eating nothing but like swordfish and tuna, really high on the food chain.

[01:34:41] Luke Storey: Sushi and whatnot.

[01:34:42] Dr. Chris Shade: Yeah, sushi, and tuna steaks, and swordfish steaks. It's rich man food. It's the steak of the sea, versus like eating, not that I really like farmed fish, but it's low mercury, but anything small. You can eat anchovies, kippers, and sardines all day long and never have high mercury, but there's everywhere in between to choose from. Like in the salmon, I love salmon, it's got all kinds of great things to it.

[01:35:10] Get nice, wild, sockeye, pink, coho salmon, very low levels. You get up to king salmon, much bigger salmon, so for any fish, the bigger it is, the higher the mercury. Now, you're borderline now, king. I love king, but like once or twice a month. And it's not like we go out for sushi and you order some hamachi or you order some tuna, and I say, no, evil. No, I'm going to eat it. I love it, but I'm not going to eat that very often.

[01:35:39] So, you have to control how much you go in. So, methylmercury is coming from fish. Inorganic mercury is coming from your amalgams. The vaccines used to have ethyl mercury in, which is really bad, but it's really not in the vaccines anymore. And so, that's your mercury. Then, arsenic, you get a lot from groundwater, and from foods, unfortunately, rice and certain grains have a lot of arsenic in it if they're grown in high arsenic soils.

[01:36:07] And also, from chicken, conventionally grown chicken, they use arsenic as an antifungal or antiparasitic, and an anti-something. And so, that builds up into the chicken flesh. Then, cadmium, unfortunately, cadmium is like the metal for super vegans, because they get it on—it deposits on a lot of deep leafy greens. And a lot of the organic farms that are out there are donated open space land from municipalities trying to do something productive.

[01:36:44] So, they got this land that they can't put any houses on next to the freaking highway, and they like donate it to some dude who wants to turn it into organic farm, and there are just tons of cadmium coming off of the exhaust and lead, and it's depositing on those. Also, shellfish and stuff have very low mercury, but they can have cadmium and arsenic.

[01:37:07] Luke Storey: Oh, interesting.

[01:37:08] Dr. Chris Shade: Yeah. So, you look at like when Tony Robbins' mercury was high, he was just eating top of the food chain, he had astronomical mercury levels, but no mercury and cadmium. Then, you look at like when I get—we have a lot of doctors in Japan and in Hong Kong, and those people tend to have high mercury, high cadmium, and high arsenic, because they're eating all over the food chain there. And those are very industrialized levels so that the shellfish and stuff have high metal content. You take a shellfish from a really clean area, it's not going to really have it.

[01:37:49] Luke Storey: What about cheap cookware? These amalgam metals that they're calling stainless steel or just the cheap ones. I mean, we obviously don't want to be cooking in Teflon, but they'll have nickel in there, right?

[01:38:00] Dr. Chris Shade: Nickels in the stainless, bad stainless steel, you get nickel. And so, nickel is really immunotoxic. People get allergies to nickel just like people who can't use cheap jewelry, that's an allergy in nickel. And if you see sort of green mark, you get nickel on there. And so, when some people get nickel toxicity, they get immunotoxicity to it and they're forming antibodies to it. And then, they can't have any stainless steel pots, or silverware, or anything.

[01:38:33] They've got to go super clean there. They're eating like off of porcelain and stuff. So, those three, that's where you get it. Led, mostly like in the old days, it was lead paint and it was lead in exhaust. And actually, after they took lead out of gasoline, violent crime decayed heavily. There is a graph from the '70s of violent crime going up, and then they deleaded gas, and you see lead go down, and violent crime go down with it, incarceration for violent crime.

[01:39:09] So, what are these different manifestations in the brain of neurotoxicity of these metals? You become a paranoid schizophrenic for mercury, which I was joking with a friend of mine, what's your psychosis? And I said, oh, paranoid schizophrenia is mine. Like if you take me to the nth degree, I'd be a paranoid schizophrenic. And that's a mercury type of thing. But there's a genius that comes with that. Lead, you are just violent and dull, violent and stupid. So, lead's really, the lead blanket, it's a heavy one. They're all a little bit different into a psychosis.

[01:39:50] Luke Storey: I had a lot of cognitive issues when I had the high lead, yeah, and I think I got-

[01:39:56] Dr. Chris Shade: Oh, yeah, brain fog.

[01:39:56] Luke Storey: I was trying to think, yeah, because my levels were off the charts at one point, and I was trying to trace back, was I eating paint chips as a kid or what? And I I don't remember, but one thing I did remember was-

[01:40:06] Dr. Chris Shade: I'm thinking about where you grew up, like where all the hippies went up in the hills and stuff, they probably got cheap paint that's lead-based.

[01:40:13] Luke Storey: That's quite possible. But one thing I know that I did is at one point, I was living in this apartment, and it had this banister on the stairs, and it was painted a million times. It was like built in the '30s. And so, I want to get the paint off, I realized, it was really hard to sand it, so I got that chemical stripper, right? And then, I was like stripping all that paint off. Yeah, I was like, that must have been it, because then you'd get like this grinder and take it all off. I wasn't wearing a mask.

[01:40:41] Dr. Chris Shade: Yeah, you probably had massive-

[01:40:43] Luke Storey: Yeah. So, I got it out. I did your stuff. I did, at one point, I think I told you last time I did the L. Ron Hubbard niacin sauna thing. And both of those did it. And then, it was like negligible. So, there goes-

[01:40:54] Dr. Chris Shade: Did it affect your prostate, too?

[01:40:57] Luke Storey: I'm not sure. I'm not sure. But I was dumb as a rock. It was just no memory. I mean, I did a lot of damage to my brain early on, too, and I'm bouncing back pretty well, but yeah, when I got the lead out, it was like somebody turned the lights on. I mean, it was huge.

[01:41:12] Dr. Chris Shade: It really is a big one.

[01:41:13] Luke Storey: So, those are some of the issues and the sources-

[01:41:15] Dr. Chris Shade: Oh, some of the ground waters have a lot, I mentioned my friend Lauren Bramley, she practices in or was practicing in Whistler in Hong Kong, and all of her Whistler people had massive lead levels. And it's the water there. So, arsenic is a water thing and lead is a water thing. Mercury-

[01:41:36] Luke Storey: Does lead in water come from old pipes? Is that-

[01:41:39] Dr. Chris Shade: No, this is geologic in this case, but it often, like in Flint, it was lead pipes that they—it was over time, this lead had been coated by layers and layers of crap, mineral deposition, and they switched from a higher pH water source to a lower pH, and it dissolved all the coating of all this corrosion on the inside of the pipes, and all of a sudden, mobilized all this lead out.

[01:42:07] Luke Storey: Oh, interesting. Alright. So, how do we get the metals out? First, we want to test for them to see clinically what's happening there.

[01:42:15] Dr. Chris Shade: Then, you're going to like—we have a couple ways to build your metal detox. You can do our old school one, the Cube. If you have lead and cadmium, add in EDTA. So, we had Cube plus EDTA, or you do a more modern one, which is Cube 2.0, which is the push catch, with PC, glutathione, and EDTA.

[01:42:43] Luke Storey: And because you guys are testing pre and post like I did, I mean, then you can absolutely quantify that this is working, right?

[01:42:49] Dr. Chris Shade: Where you are, do you need more? Some people have blockages, epigenetic, genetic blockages. Some people got to do it for 12 months. Other people, two or three months, and zip, it's all out.

[01:42:59] Luke Storey: And does your methylation have to do with how you handle metals as well?

[01:43:05] Dr. Chris Shade: It's multifactorial. I mean, people, talk about an internet meme, oh, I don't methylate, therefore, I don't detoxify. It's like, there's a lot of overlapping things going on. Methylation definitely could be part of it. Glutathione processes are a much stronger part of it. Metallothionein, which comes along with the glutathione processes. They're just starting to tease apart what those different ones are for detox and different ones that make you more sensitive to a certain level that you have.

[01:43:34] So, it's hard to look at a number, and say, oh, I'm toxic or I'm not toxic. You have to look at the number and you have to look at the symptomology, but the number tells you like, if I feel this is toxic from the metals and I get it to go down 80%, but I don't feel any different, then it might be something else. But the number is something to track to know what your goal, how far down do you want to get it, and how well is it getting down there?

[01:44:01] Luke Storey: And how do you feel about these oral chelators, and IV chelation, and stuff like that? Because you guys don't seem to do that.

[01:44:07] Dr. Chris Shade: We don't do any of that. Well, we would be technically oral, but we're not—the only "chelator" we're using is EDTA. We don't use DMSA and DMPS. If you want to use that, you can. And a lot of my friends, like Todd Lapine, Mark Hyman, the guys at Ultra Wellness, will overlay a chemical chelator, like DMPS or DMSA over our program. And there are horror stories in chelation, and tons of them. And most of them are from not getting the elimination pathways all open before you start mobilizing and stirring the pot of all these metals.

[01:44:42] Luke Storey: Ah, so that's the bad rap that that type of chelation gets.

[01:44:44] Dr. Chris Shade: That's the bad rap that it'll have. So, if you open up all the pathways, the metals will come out anyways, but if you want to speed that up by taking the chelators, you could do that, but only on top of fixed draining system.

[01:44:57] Luke Storey: Got it. That makes sense. Love it. Okay. Then, let me see.

[01:45:02] Dr. Chris Shade: Ten.

[01:45:02] Luke Storey: Okay. Thank you. Thank you. I'm going to get an IV after this over at our friends at Alive and Well, shout out to Alive and Well in BK of Texas. Oh, mold. So, I just did a mold show. I don't know why it took me forever to get it done. Actually, I do know why, because it wasn't an issue for me personally, so I just didn't-

[01:45:19] Dr. Chris Shade: That's exactly the way we roll.

[01:45:21] Luke Storey: I didn't get around to it selfishly, but I moved in or bought this house out here and it had a bit of mold. Not bad, but enough where you want to get rid of it. And so, I interviewed a guy, Michael Rubino, and we were talking about the different sources of mold, how to identify it, the right way to test for it, and home remediation, but we didn't really get into how to get it out of your body if you've been exposed. So, I always just recommend your Dr. Jill's mold detox, because your detox stuff worked for me, so I figured that one worked. But what's up with that? Who's Dr. Jill? And what's in that box that's different from like one of your more metal or toxin-focused detox?

[01:45:58] Dr. Chris Shade: Yeah. So, Dr. Jill is Jill Carnahan, and she's a friend and a neighbor. We actually live a couple of doors down from each other. And she practices about three miles away from our laboratory. And she's a specialist in mold. Mold is always a big issue for her. And so, it's based around that push catch with a couple of addons. There's a glutathione source in there. There's Quinton for the mineral regulation because molds blow your sodium potassium channels and your aldosterone, and that's how you pee, and hold water, and minerals, and stuff.

[01:46:36] And so, it's helping regulate your water retention. There's some NAD in there, because molds knock down your mitochondrial, but it's pretty much one of our—it's a core system. It's not a whole lot different than the metal stuff, except there's no EDTA in there. So, yeah, with molds, you've got that core push catch. We want some glutathione if you tolerate it well, and I like a lot of PC, and I think there is PC in that box, because the mold's really screwing up the membranes a lot, screwing up the bile flow. And so, the PC is going to help get that all fluidized through there. But molds also wipe out your mitochondria, and hence why the NAD, it's NAD Gold with Methyl Charge also in there for building that back up.

[01:47:31] Luke Storey: Cool. And is that something you think that—I mean, I guess it depends on.

[01:47:34] Dr. Chris Shade: Oh, and I will say the one differentiator with mold, if you're going to do any of those systems, if you're going to do any, I mean, mold or Black Box 2 works well on that, our basic push catch with some addons, get extra binder. And if the system, whether it's Jill's or one of ours says, do it twice a day, take binder four times a day or more when you're doing mold, because that's the big difference is you need binder more often, because the mold toxins are always coming slowly out of the liver and they're being reabsorbed. So, you need binder picking it off and taking it.

[01:48:12] Luke Storey: Got it. And what would you recommend for women? And this is a question that's, of course, relevant to my life, but if a woman is getting ready to conceive, and is just winging it, and doesn't do any testing, which I wouldn't recommend if you live in a modern world, what would you recommend for a woman in terms of preparing for the highest likelihood of having a healthy baby, like testing for metals, mold, doing a detox before getting pregnant?

[01:48:41] Dr. Chris Shade: Do detox, because the thing about testing, we love to test, treat, test, but we don't have tests for everything that are out there. If there are 10,000 chemicals that are a possible problem to us out there, maybe we're measuring 20 of them. So, you can get a false sense of security. I would test as much as you can, and if there's an obvious demon there, make sure you get rid of it first.

[01:49:07] If there's not, go through one to three months of detox, push catch, lots of PC in this, because you're building all of your membrane structure, because you're going to be donating to the child all the time. Also, I would do lots of Quinton and other minerals in there to make sure that you're rebuilding as you're stripping and have the multivitamin in there, too. So, you're both taking away and putting back at the same time.

[01:49:37] You could do those sequentially, but there's no reason you can't do that all at one time. So, you want to get the stuff out. But then, when you stop detoxing, give it at least a month before you go to try to have a kid. Because once you start mobilizing all this stuff, often, so there's a distribution between the tissues and the blood, and when you get really inflamed and really sick, you've got all this stuff stuck in the tissues. You can't even see all the toxins because you can only measure in the blood.

[01:50:05] And this whole challenge testing doesn't take it out of the cells. It only measures from the blood, and you'll see often, you go into detox, and you get much higher blood levels. They come up, and then they take a while to come back down and be lower than what they were before. So, one to two months after the detox before you conceive. I mean, everybody's all anxious to get in there and make that baby, but if you just take a little bit of time, it'll be well worth it.

[01:50:29] Luke Storey: Cool. Awesome. I'm glad we got to cover that. And who have been three teachers or teachings that have influenced you and your work that you might share with us?

[01:50:38] Dr. Chris Shade: Well, now, people who are teachers to me, my early teachers were Dietrich Klinghardt and Hal Huggins. They were the original mercury guys, and they were the first ones I brought my first IMD, our metal detox product and our testing to. Those guys really got me launched into the world and got me going out there. And then, who else have I learned a lot from in this world? I'm going to give a shoutout here, even though there's a lot of people who've taught a freaking ton along the way, I'm going to give Frank Shallenberger that I've learned a lot from him.

[01:51:24] Luke Storey: Yeah, big ozone guy.

[01:51:24] Dr. Chris Shade: He's a big ozone guy, yeah, and the best guy with the needle.

[01:51:30] Luke Storey: What do you think about ozone as part of a detox protocol, while we're on that?

[01:51:35] Dr. Chris Shade: Yeah. Well, it's a stimulant to your glutathione system. It's a stimulant to your immune system. And so, I would do ozone therapy along with detox, for sure. And it's a hormetic stimulant, so it's a pro-oxidant, which is then stimulating your antioxidant response.

[01:51:54] Luke Storey: Would you do it in conjunction with push catch kind of thing, or would you do one before the other?

[01:52:03] Dr. Chris Shade: I would do it all at the same time.

[01:52:05] Luke Storey: That's funny. I've never set an alarm on here, folks. That means the show is over. I've never said an alarm before, because I'm like, ah, I can be late, but today, I can't. So, you would do it before, ozone before?

[01:52:15] Dr. Chris Shade: No, I would do them all at the—I would start on the push catch, and then do the ozone while in this background of push catch, so your body's getting used to dumping things, and then you get this stimulation from the ozone, and that's going to control some of the growths in there. One of the problems with detox is when you have some sort of biofilm infection or chronic infection, creating inflammation and inflammation blocks detoxing. You're trying to detox, but nothing's coming out. Often, when you go and you kill some things, then, whoosh, everything comes out.

[01:52:49] Luke Storey: So, if you're doing like an IV or rectal ozone, then that's going to knock out those biofilms and clear the path.

[01:52:56] Dr. Chris Shade: Yeah.

[01:52:57] Luke Storey: Cool. Who's the third influence?

[01:53:00] Dr. Chris Shade: Well, I gave-

[01:53:03] Luke Storey: Oh, you gave us three.

[01:53:04] Dr. Chris Shade: ... Klinghardt, Huggins, and Shallenberger.

[01:53:06] Luke Storey: You're sharp, that yohimbine worked.

[01:53:07] Dr. Chris Shade: Yeah.

[01:53:08] Luke Storey: Alright, there's one more question I'm going to sneak in real quick, because I just thought of it.

[01:53:11] Dr. Chris Shade: Do you feel that during this talk?

[01:53:12] Luke Storey: Oh, yeah. Yeah, because my sleep, we had all these thunderstorms here last night.

[01:53:17] Dr. Chris Shade: Oh, my God. 4:00 last night-

[01:53:19] Luke Storey: I'm not used to that.

[01:53:20] Dr. Chris Shade: ... for the next two, three hours. There were a lot. It was like a war zone. It was the loudest thunder.

[01:53:26] Luke Storey: In LA, I'm used to gunfire. But yeah, my sleep sucks. So, walking in here today, I was like, how am I going to do this? So, yeah, didn't feel it. Yeah, it's amazing. But I wanted to ask you, is there anything you can think of that people could take internally to help them be more resilient against EMF?

[01:53:46] Dr. Chris Shade: NAD. Oh, no shit? Any of the AMPK, sirtuin, NAD world. So, this is Martin Paul's work that EMF is blocking this voltage-gated ion channel, it's a calcium channel, and you're supposed to be constantly pumping calcium out of the cell and leaving magnesium inside the cell. Just like sodium, you're pumping it out of the cell and leaving potassium inside the cell. EMF damages that pump, and then the calcium floods into the cell and creates inflammatory conditions.

[01:54:26] That damaged pump is repaired by NAD, so having a high NAD repairs that pump. Once I started taking NAD supplements, I noticed that flights were not so damaging to me. I did much better with flights. That's the most concentrated EMF scene that we do with the exception of being in casinos in Las Vegas. You have all the radiation from up in the sky and you're in this tube that's holding everybody's EMF from everybody's device.

[01:55:00] Luke Storey: Yeah. Cool. NAD, I didn't think of that. I've heard that you want to up your magnesium levels, because of that calcium influx issue.

[01:55:07] Dr. Chris Shade: Yeah. So, that's one way of looking at it, but repair the pump so it segregates black and white, and doesn't make gray.

[01:55:15] Luke Storey: Right. And then, what about molecular hydrogen, the hydrogen tabs? I do those a lot when I fly, they seem to help a lot, but I've heard that that could help make you more resilient.

[01:55:24] Dr. Chris Shade: Yeah, probably could. And what is hydrogen? It's an AMPK activator.

[01:55:27] Luke Storey: Oh, really?

[01:55:28] Dr. Chris Shade: Yeah.

[01:55:29] Luke Storey: Oh, no, shit. That's cool. I didn't that.

[01:55:30] Dr. Chris Shade: Light NRF2, pretty good AMPK activation. That's why it's used in all these weight loss scenarios.

[01:55:35] Luke Storey: Ah, got it. Cool. Alright, dude. Where can we find you? Quicksilverscientific.com?

[01:55:41] Dr. Chris Shade: Quicksilverscientific.com, Dr. Christopher Shade on Instagram. Numerous other Instagram and Facebook sites for Quicksilver that I don't control, but it's really the quicksilverscientific.com, and you'll be split into a consumer or practitioner site. Practitioner site just as more data sheets and access to different things that aren't on the consumer site. But we do a lot of webinars. There's a lot of podcasts of me out there, so there's a lot of educational resources.

[01:56:14] Luke Storey: Yeah, thanks, dude. You're a wealth of information. And thanks again for coming out to Austin to see me.

[01:56:18] Dr. Chris Shade: Oh, it's great to see you. It's great to be in person.

[01:56:22] Luke Storey: Yeah, it is, human touch.

[01:56:24] Dr. Chris Shade: Touch, look, life party is integrating.

[01:56:25] Luke Storey: I'm not going to wash my hand afterward, because my immune system is on point.

[01:56:28] Dr. Chris Shade: No. About that, you know it.

[01:56:29] Luke Storey: Yeah. Alright, dude. Thanks for coming out.

[01:56:31] Dr. Chris Shade: Thank you.

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