[00:00:00] Luke: Dr. Marcella Madera, how is it going? 

[00:00:04] Marcella: Great. 

[00:00:05] Luke: I'm so excited to have this chat with you after, uh, doing the Aqua Method with you at, uh, Austin Integrative Spine. It's been, I think, about a month since we did our deep dive procedure. And, um, there's been so many things I wanted to speak to you about since then and just reflect upon. It was a four-day experience, and so much happened. And then all kinds of things that I've been doing in my homework afterward. But the actual going to the clinic, doing the procedure, it was a whirlwind. There's so much happening at once.

[00:00:40] Marcella: There's lot. Yeah.

[00:00:42] Luke: Um, there's so many different practitioners and their different areas of expertise working on my case at the same time. And every day is so full of activities and treatments. It was a whirlwind. And so I've been integrating that for the past month. And as I knew you were coming today, I was like, oh man, this is going to be so fun to unpack this, and rewind, and give myself an opportunity to more fully integrate some of the things I missed because we were just immersed in the thing.

So I'm looking forward to talking about that. And I also want to report, I feel amazing in my body right now. Even just sitting like this, in lotus Indian style, um, normally would be very uncomfortable after just a few minutes. In my right hip, I would be not having it. Um, and I feel just super settled in my body, so thank you very much--

[00:01:36] Marcella: Thank you. Yay.

[00:01:36] Luke: For coming up with something--

[00:01:38] Marcella: End of interview. 

[00:01:39] Luke: Yeah. So just do everything, you guys. But I mean, I've done a lot of stuff, and some of it has incrementally helped, and I'm sure there's procedures that I've participated in, uh, that provided help that I wasn't really aware of. Um, and in some cases, you don't know if you would have been worse off down the road had you not done something, but it's rare that I participate in something, um, that is quantifiable so, uh, obviously, and immediately afterwards. 

So here I sit as a success case, so I'm going to definitely talk to you about that. But since I just jumped into your clinic and your protocol, I didn't really get a lot of your backstory, but based on the diagnostic process and just being under your care during that time, I sense that, um, you have, uh, a legit pedigree of Western medicine and all that behind you before you went into the integrative stuff. So give us a little bit of your history, education, past practice, and what brought you into the more integrative approach.

[00:02:42] Marcella: Yes. Well, first, thank you for the opportunity to be on your podcast. I'm just thrilled to be here with you and thrilled to have had the opportunity to care for you. And my whole team, we just had the best time working with you, so thank you. Um, so my journey started in conventional medicine. I went to college at Wash U in St. Louis, Washington University. Four years. And then four years of medical school, University of Oklahoma. And then I got accepted to medical school.

Between college and med school, I took a year off in between to work in a lab for a bit. Medical school in Oklahoma, then six years of residency in neurological surgery at Mayfield Clinic in Cincinnati, University of Cincinnati. And then one year of fellowship and faculty instructorship at Johns Hopkins University, medical school, in Baltimore.

And then immediately after, fellowship instructorship, which is a combination job where you are learning complex spine surgery and you're also a faculty person. So I had my own clinic, my own clinical experience there, which was magnificent. In your words, uh, in the pedigree, uh, state of, uh, conventional neurosurgical training.

And then went from there into Austin and was in a private practice, uh, conventional medical neurosurgical practice for 10 years with, um, wonderful humans at Austin Brain and Spine, my partner's there. And then through that 10 years, I-- at the beginning of a neurosurgical career, it's really getting your feet wet, learning again how to do everything surgically from an attending point of view, from a person in charge point of view and not learning anymore, but actually being in charge of everything.

And so that was about my first five years. And within that period of time, I was getting better and better at who I was as a surgeon, but I also kept having the experience over and over that there had to be more to this. Because I would see a patient, and do a surgery, and fix their problem, and the images were perfect, and then they might come back a year later with the same problem, but the images were still perfect. And their problem had come back. And it didn't make any sense. 

Or I would fix them with surgery, and then they would come back, and the next level above or below in the spine would have a problem. Or they would come to me with some terrible arm pain, for example, and their images were totally pristine. Nothing surgical. And nobody had any solutions for these people. 

And so there's some really, really great things that conventional surgery is great for, but there were a lot of things that I kept seeing that I didn't have a fix for these people, and I really wanted to do more. And at the same time, I was having these experiences over and over as I'm growing in my career. 

On a personal note, uh, for myself and for my own personal growth, I started studying Energy for Success with Dr. Barry Morguelan. And I know you've had him on here before. And doing my own practices every day and growing in what I was able to achieve, getting better at my surgeries, having less anxiety for myself, um, learning about functional and integrative medicine, just learning about all other types of things out there, um, beyond conventional medicine, I thought, I can do this better. I can do this neurosurgery thing better.

And also, in that chunk of time where I'm exploring, I met some really great, uh, ultimately turned out to be great friends and colleagues in the regenerative medicine world and stem cell world and created my integrative practice to be the best of all of these things put together. So the best of conventional medicine, the best of alternative medicine, the best of integrative medicine, the best of regenerative medicine.

And I started my, um, integrative practice, uh, Austin Integrative Spine, uh, as a side gig, uh, toward the end of my conventional neurosurgical career for a couple of years. And then I went completely solo in 2020, right before COVID actually, which was awesome--

[00:06:45] Luke: Awesome.

[00:06:46] Marcella: From a business standpoint.

[00:06:47] Luke: I'm sure you signed a massive lease, and then one wants to leave their house.

[00:06:51] Marcella: Yeah, it was great. But actually, it was amazing because even through COVID, in fact, more than ever, people needed that multidimensional approach. So not only do I give opinions on brain and spine issues from a conventional standpoint, I have a very extensive mind-body piece and a very extensive integrative and functional medicine piece. And people needed that the same, if not more, during COVID. So it was just maneuvering the business side, but it was--

[00:07:18] Luke: Wow. For my sake, I'm glad you pulled through. I'm glad you were open by the time I met you. Um, so forgive my ignorance here, but, um, I've interviewed at least one neurosurgeon, Dr. Jack Kruse, a few times. Um, and he, I think, only does brain surgery. As a neurosurgeon, do some of you do spine, and others brain, and some both? How does that work?

[00:07:44] Marcella: There's a wide variety. Um, many folks that end up in academic institutions will specialize and do only brain, or only spine, or mostly brain, or mostly spine. But even within brain, there are cerebrovascular blood vessel specialists. There are tumor specialists. Um, and within spine, there are trauma spine specialists. There are degenerative spine specialists. 

So there is functional neurosurgery, which is completely different than functional medicine. Um, functional neurosurgery deals with movement disorders and, um, pain, for example. So within neurosurgery, there are myriad of options, and based on what you love and what additional fellowship training you want to do, you could specialize or you could do everything. So when I went into private practice early in my career, I did everything. I did aneurysms. I did brain tumors. I did spine, um, because private practice, that was what we did.

[00:08:39] Luke: Wow, so you've sawed open people's skulls and gone in and toyed around with their brains.

[00:08:45] Marcella: I mean, I wouldn't call it toying around. I would call it, uh--

[00:08:48] Luke: Yeah. That's a bad way to phrase it.

[00:08:49] Marcella: Healing them. But yes.

[00:08:52] Luke: I mean, I'm just thinking the doctor game. 

[00:08:55] Marcella: Yeah. Oh, right. The Operation. Yeah.

[00:08:58] Luke: Operation. Yeah, Operation. So yeah, I'm not diminishing the-- 

[00:09:02] Marcella: No, it's all good.

[00:09:04] Luke: But I just think about-- I don't know. It's just always been fascinating to me. And I asked Dr. Kruse about this, and I'm just like, for a lay person, just the pressure, I'm assuming, of having someone's life in your hands, one misstep, I'm sure with the spine too, but with the brain, it's like, there's no like, oops, scalpel hit the wrong lobe or whatever. 

I mean, it's hard to imagine just-- the gore part of it with all medicine to me is a whole other part of just I don't like seeing blood and exposed organs, and it's just too many horror movies when I was a kid, probably. I got sensitized in a negative sense, um, for that, but I just think it would be so nerve wracking, no pun intended. 

[00:09:50] Marcella: I will say in my early, early training, from the very, very beginning, um, first in medical school when I decided I was going to be a neurosurgeon, and then early in my training when I saw some of the more complex cranial cases, we actually get to look at the base of the brain, and you see the circle of Willis's beautiful blood vessels at the base of the brain, and you dissect on a microscope in it. 

I mean, it is a, whatever word you want to use as a holy experience to be looking at what is the seat of the soul. I mean, that's what it feels like. You don't even think that consciously. There is a feeling. There's a vibration to looking at that. And I felt it very early on with seeing the brain stem and seeing the blood vessels.

So I knew I was in the right place because I was getting that vibe of like, I'm supposed to be here. This is incredible. I can't even talk about it. That's how profound it is. And so that was a very early experience. And then taking that forward, all the rest of it, it's awesome. 

[00:10:51] Luke: When you were or are currently, um, doing those surgical procedures, what do you do to prep your state? Is there any state change, or any mindset, or mindfulness practice that you have to go in and achieve the level of presence that's required to be successful?

[00:11:12] Marcella: Well, that's what was so incredible about my early career when I started doing-- I mean, before I was doing the Energy for Success stuff, what you'd learn in school is you show up, and you're in the zone, and you sleep. Sometimes you don't even sleep. I mean, in training, sleep is plus minus. And even when you're in practice and you're very busy on calls, sleep can be plus minus.

It's not like the self-care world where everybody's getting optimal sleep. You show up, and you do the work, and you have a training that supports you to be able to bring it when you need to bring it. So before I was doing energy work, it was almost militaristic, like when you're on, you're on, and you're going to get it done because you're trained to do that. You know how to do it, and you can bring it when you need to bring it.

Um, but once I started doing the energy work, I would actually do my Energy for Success practices before I start the surgery, um, in the hallway before I would go into the OR. And it got to a point where I would have my whole team-- I've talked about this on other podcasts. I have a whole team do a practice with me before we started because the whole team got in the zone.

So I learned things to get myself even more in the zone and found that I got even more flow state that was additive to my previous training. And I will say now, even though I'm not doing cranial surgery anymore with the laser-activated plasma treatments that we are doing for brain disease, I kept the same protocols.

So we still do our practices. I still do my own practices before. My team still does a set of practices before. So we're creating this healing environment where everybody's on the same page and in the zone before we start. And what's incredible is now we don't have to do surgery, and we still get great results. 

[00:12:57] Luke: So cool. Yeah. Thinking back to, and we'll do into some of the details of this, but during those four days, the coherence amongst your team was palpable. 

[00:13:11] Marcella: Yeah. 

[00:13:11] Luke: It was definitely an energy field that was very different from medical offices.

[00:13:18] Marcella: Yeah.

[00:13:19] Luke: And God bless everyone in medicine. They're doing the best they can, but there was-- I mean, it wasn't just the level of care. It really was a coherence, a field. When you go to, um, a Joe Dispenza intensive or something, and you're in the hours, it's like, hmm, there's something happening here that you can feel. It's almost tangible. A level of presence, and care, and devotion, and that was my experience working with you and your team. 

So that makes sense that getting into that collective consciousness of healing where-- and also just people-- when you have a team of people that are doing an intensive medical procedure, it seems like it would be important for each member of the team to also just put the rest of their life aside for a moment and really devote all of their attention to the care of the patient, which I'm sure you know, under a stressful situation, happens inherently, but it sounds like, um, what you're describing is a much more deliberate way to do that.

[00:14:16] Marcella: From the very beginning, with every team member, part of our onboarding process is this is different. This is not your regular medical office, and we are here to not only provide the medical care, but what you just said, the vibe of being here is very, very, very important, and it's intentional, for sure.

[00:14:36] Luke: Has your HR journey been challenging at all, trying to find people that are medically qualified to come in and be up to snuff with education and experience, but also to have an understanding of consciousness and to bring in the metaphysical into the physical?

[00:14:52] Marcella: It's a great question. The best answer I can say is, from the very beginning, I used my own personal Energy for Success practices to create criteria of who I wanted to draw toward me. And these people showed up. And all my employees are key employees. I wasn't going to say key, but they're all key. And some of them have come from conventional medicine and followed me. Others I ran across through other pathways in life. And I've had extremely low turnover because of this family holistic vibe that we've created.

[00:15:30] Luke: Cool. I mean, thinking about putting myself in that position, I would rather work in your clinic than some stuffy, churning out patients by the number.

[00:15:40] Marcella: Right. Yeah. 

[00:15:41] Luke: Just monetarily driven. For lack of a better term, cold clinical environment, where it's like, just come in. What's your name? What's your number? Many of us have had that experience where you go see a practitioner that's qualified, well-meaning, but the system itself is not set up to infuse that personal touch and that level of care. I mean, you get a few minutes, there's a short diagnostic, and, oh yeah, you need this prescription or this surgery. We'll book it. Boom. You're out of there. There's not a lot of warmth and, um, just attention to the whole person.

[00:16:18] Marcella: Yeah. We've been very, very intentional. From the consult experience, which is where we first learn about you and decide what treatment is going to be a good fit for you and what your goals are and what you want, from that very first consultation all the way to the completed treatment, we're treating you as a whole person. 

I want to know, yes, what's it going to feel like for you to have your hip feel better? Great. Your hip's going to feel better. Okay, that's fine. But what does that mean for your life? What will that allow you to do with your day-to-day work, with your kids, with your golf game, with your whatever? It's always a picture of your entire life as a framework for how we're going to tackle the issue.

[00:17:00] Luke: That's smart. Because thinking about, um, manifesting any type of goal, I've found it to be most useful not just to think about, but to embody the feeling of what's on the other side of that goal. So I want a million dollars in the bank next week. Okay. What's that actually going to produce? Well, that's going to produce a feeling of security, a feeling of freedom, whatever it is. So what if I could just elicit the feeling that's on the other side of that now to create the vibrational for that thing, right?

[00:17:32] Marcella: Yes. 

[00:17:33] Luke: And then whether or not the million dollars shows up or not, it becomes irrelevant because I've already created what I thought that was going to bring me ahead of it actualizing.

[00:17:43] Marcella: Yes. And that's exactly what we do, as you experienced with the goal session.

[00:17:47] Luke: Yeah. Because there's a lot of-- anyway. We get into the Aqua Method stuff. I have some more things I want to talk to you about before we get into that.

 ADMARKER

So are you still doing traditional surgeries now at point? 

[00:17:59] Marcella: Yes. There are some things that surgery is the most right thing to do. And for very severe, for example, spinal cord compression in the neck, for very severe nerve compression in the lumbar spine, I still do surgery for those things when-- whenever I have a conversation with a patient, it's very individualized because some patients show up, and they are just, I refuse to have surgery. I will not do surgery. What other options are there? 

And I have a very clear conversation that you have a surgical indication, and in conventional medicine, surgery is indicated. These are the risks if you don't. Right now, we can always do it later, and these are some other options we could do. Um, I would say most of the time, when I have that conversation, if it's a non-urgent thing, most people will try the non-surgical thing.

Um, and many times, as successfully, we don't have to do surgery. But it's very careful in particular about how we frame those conversations because you want to be very clear that if you have a surgical problem, conventional medicine says surgery, but there are a lot of other great options.

[00:19:08] Luke: Okay, cool. Yeah. It reminds me, the other day, I had a direct message from someone. I think it was on a Thursday or Friday, and she said, hey, um, I'm scheduled to go in for a spine surgery on Tuesday, and I'm really nervous. Do you know of any other things? And I was like, call Dr. Madera's office? Postpone it. I don't know. I'm not equipped to advise on that, but I was like, I think you should get a second opinion before you just-- because, obviously, her intuition was like, I don't know if this is the right thing. 

I don't know if she reached out to you guys or not, but, for me, because going back, what, gosh, so many years I've had nagging back pain, but when I first started to have this experience, um, I was in the entertainment industry in Hollywood, so I had really good insurance. Whenever I had to go to the doctor, I would just look for the Beverly Hills zip code, and I would just go to one of them.

So I went to this fancy, I don't know, orthopedic surgeon or something on, uh, what's that road? Wilshire Boulevard, in the middle of Beverly Hills, and like, he has to know what he's talking about. I went in, and I think they sent me out for an MRI, and he's just, without even thinking about it, was like, oh yeah, we'll just do the surgery. We're going to fuse your discs or whatever. I don't remember what the thing was. And intuitively, I thought, my insurance is going to cover it, I could totally do it, but I'm just like, what if there's another way that doesn't involve permanently altering the structure that God created my body to have?

And I'm so glad that I had the intuition, but think about how many zillions of people out there just go to the doctor and think, well, the doctor's the authority. They have the stethoscope and the lab code, and whatever they say is the truth. And so many of us have, um, outsourced our discernment, and our power, and intuition to the establishment. And, um, so yeah, I get messages like that sometimes, and I'm like, just explore all your options before you do that.

[00:21:02] Marcella: Totally. And I would say, this is probably funny for a regular conventional neurosurgeon to say, I love giving second opinions. That's one of the things that I do in my practice, um, because that same experience that you're having, that you had, which is an MRI that shows some stuff, but a physical exam and imaging that don't necessarily match, that is more often the case than not. 

And one of my key things, if you watch any of the content on my website, is that your doctor truly does not know what is wrong with you. Truly. Where is your pain coming from? We don't know. We are taking our best educated guess, and that's part of the Aqua Method, why I changed the whole way I do diagnostics now for spine issues. 

And that experience of having an image, and having a pain, and the surgeon recommending something, there are so many different ways to skin that cat. And that's why when I do a second opinion, I almost always, the first opinion they got is totally valid in conventional medicine. It's totally valid. But what if you did it minimally invasive? 

But what if you did it from a side approach instead of a lateral approach, instead of an anterior approach? What if you did it front back to have more stability? What if you didn't do it at all and you did something in the regenerative or cell biologic medicine side? So there are so many approaches that having an expert who's been through all of the stuff look at it, and give you some guidance, and just distill the data, and actually spend time with you.

That's why I love it so much. Because I love spending time with patients and explaining all the stuff that took me 20 years of training and career to learn, which you will not get from your doctor in your 15 to 30-minute surgical consultation. You will not get it.

[00:22:55] Luke: I've noticed. When we started on the Aqua Method journey, um, one of the things-- I like to learn, obviously. I have these conversations. It's what I do for a living. Um, so I'm just a person who likes the finer detail, and I want things explained thoroughly, and I also want to be heard when I have questions or concerns. And the intake and diagnostic process that I went through with you, I think, was more thorough in and of itself than some complete procedures I've had in the past, front to back. You know what I'm saying?

It's like, oh, wow. We get the MRI. We sit down and talk about it for an hour. We look at every little nuance of it. The whole thing. The nutrition intake, looking into labs, a couple of long zoom calls. I'm like, this is how you do this shit. This is the right way, if there is a right way. Because as a client, I'm able to make informed decisions and have a very thorough understanding of what I'm working with, what the various, um, stimuli for the pain could be.

And as you said, what's really frustrating, I think, for people that are dealing with discs, spine issues, etc, is that-- and this was, um, the case that I described going to that, um, orthopedic surgeon. He looked at my MRI, and he's like, oh yeah, you have a couple of compressed discs, so we're going to go in there, and juice those up, and put whatever in there, and fatten those up because it's aggravating the nerves. And I was like, well, have you seen worse than this? He's like, oh, many people have way worse spines than you, and they have zero pain ever in their whole life. And some people have less than you and have more pain.

[00:24:29] Marcella: So he's telling you the same thing I'm telling you, except he does want to operate on you. 

[00:24:32] Luke: Just like, what is happening here? So because of many experiences like that, I liked that we went so deep into the diagnostic. And then another thing that was really cool is that I've intuited for years that the lower back pain that I've been nagged by for so long is not actually a problem with my back. 

I know that I have a very limited range of motion in my hip. I know that I injured my hip some 30 years ago being a drunk idiot on a hike, and I've always sensed that it's not actually a back problem. It's a hip problem. And that when the hip can't move, it steals motion from my back. I just know that somehow.

And no medical doctor has it ever been able to corroborate that. And very quickly, on your own accord, looking at the imaging, you came to that same understanding. I was like, yes. Finally. Finally, my intuition and what I'm sensing in my body is actually being listened to and corroborated by someone who knows how to read an MRI.

[00:25:39] Marcella: Yes. 

[00:25:39] Luke: That was a really important part of the diagnostic process for me, and it also just helped with my trust and compliance during the process. I was like, okay, cool. She gets it. Finally, someone that has the medical, um, understanding and experience can corroborate what my subjective physical experience is. 

[00:25:58] Marcella: Yeah. I'm always telling my patients, you and your body are way smarter than I am. Way. You have so much more experience. You are in your body every day from birth. You know when something's off. And that's the simplest thing of what we do in that consultation part and also the part where, um, our other team members, when we're evaluating in a group, are getting data from the patient, and we're taking the time to do it, which I know in my old conventional practice, um, actually, uh, I won't say I got in trouble, but I was a little bit eye-rolled about how much time I wanted to block off on my schedule for my new patients because I needed all that time. I had to really talk to these people and figure out what's going on because they would tell me the answer.

[00:26:48] Luke: Well, also, I think when you take that time too, because we were looking at labs, and we were talking about diet and lifestyle, I mean, it's very uncommon that you go see any specialist and they start asking you what your diet's like. You know what I'm saying?

[00:27:03] Marcella: Yeah, yeah.

[00:27:04] Luke: I mean, I have a pretty clean lifestyle and good diet and all that, but I might have come to someone like you or another surgeon, and maybe I'm eating a totally inflammatory diet, and I live on canola oil, and gluten, and glyphosate, and I come in, and you're looking at my imaging going, oh yeah, I would just definitely need to do surgery, when I might've been able to avoid that just by cleaning up my diet and reducing the level of inflammation and thus the pain.

[00:27:31] Marcella: Totally. And early in my integrative practice, uh, iterations, one of the first things I did was tell everyone about anti-inflammatory eating. Very simple. Um, I'm a big proponent of Whole30 as a good starting point for lots of people. It's accessible, for example. There's lots of other great ones.

We love Bulletproof. We love lots of diets. Um, but that basic anti-inflammatory diet education, plus movement, in my early phases where people were coming with-- I had, I would say, more people wanting surgical opinions, we would do that. And about 30% of the time, their symptoms would go away. I mean, just exactly what you're saying. With cleaning up diet and cleaning up lifestyle and adding some mind body stuff, many times, their symptoms would be gone.

[00:28:26] Luke: Despite them still having anomalies in their imaging and stuff.

[00:28:28] Marcella: Yeah, despite the horrible images. Yeah, totally.

[00:28:31] Luke: That's crazy. 

[00:28:31] Marcella: And then once we added the more deep mind body stuff, that number went up. So the whole decoding thing, when we talk about that, that piece, it's just another piece of the puzzle of, again, the imaging not matching the symptoms. 

[00:28:49] Luke: Um, well, let's talk about the Aqua Method, which I think is the crown jewel of your work and what you seem most excited about, and what I have the most, um, direct experience with. So I'm trying to go back and remember what happened. So there was the diagnostic part of it, which included the imaging and some of the meetings that we had beforehand about lifestyle and things like that. But there was, um, overall, much more of a mind, body, spirit approach to it. And so part of that was the laser-activated PRP. I don't know if I'm calling that the right thing.

Let's start here because I just got this off your website and didn't realize that this is what we're doing. The four R's, reveal, restore, revitalize. What was the last one? Revel?

[00:29:42] Marcella: Revel. Yeah. 

[00:29:42] Luke: Okay. Let's start there, and then I want to go into some of the details of what this process involves because I think it's just amazing, and I want to share it with you. 

[00:29:51] Marcella: Yeah. So, um, we built the four R's as a way to explain the process. The first R, the reveal process is really the thing I said before, which is your doctor doesn't know what's wrong with you. Where this came from was my own personal experience of having a nagging-- and every time I say this I laugh because my patients say stuff like this to me all the time.

And then I became my patient, which is I had a buzz in my shoulder. What is this buzz in my shoulder? For years, I had it. I saw a PM&R, physical medicine and rehab doctor. He didn't know what it was. I saw one of the top, um, regenerative, uh, injection specialist and injected some, um, very expensive stuff in it under ultrasound guidance with one of the top people in the world that does that. That didn't make it go away. I did some physical therapy. That didn't make it away. I did lots of yoga. That didn't make it away. And it was just always there off and on.

So this reveal thing came because I had an experience with who is now our functional tissue mobilization chiropractor, Dr. Joey Mattina. I had a session with him, and he immediately knew what it was. It had to do with the attachment between my thoracic spine and my shoulder blade, and it was both anterior and posterior components.

And he worked on me briefly, um, once, and then a few times, maybe once a month after that, and it went away. And then in addition to working with him, he said, oh, I have this amazing trainer. He can give you some exercises to do. And so I started working with Matt Lindamood, who gave me very specific stabilization exercises specific for that, but also for my whole body.

And I'd been working with him for, um, at least a year before I put this together for patients. But the end of the story is that the reveal of figuring out what is wrong with you, it is not just the doctor, the orthopedic surgeon, the PM&R Doctor. It is a doctor or a person who understands the medical piece, plus somebody who understands how the whole body fits together, and that's what Dr. Mattina's expertise is.

And he does this thing, functional tissue mobilization, which has to do with releasing the tissues such that you can get the inflammation out and get blood flow in, and he resets your body. It's not conventional chiropractic manipulation. Um, so reveal is somebody who's the medical person looking at the medical history and the medical imaging. The tissue worker who knows how your tissues work together in your body and not just one body part, by the way. All the adjacent body parts that are working together. 

And then a movement specialist, and that's Matt Lindamood, our trainer, who can look at your body as a whole, how it moves, and see, oh, you've got that pattern because of that injury. So now once we clear this out, uh, and get the tissue working better, then we repattern the movement to get your whole body working together as a whole. So that's a very long way of saying that the reveal process is looking at you from multiple different angles and then developing a treatment plan in real time, on your body, live.

[00:33:02] Luke: The multi-faceted diagnostic. 

[00:33:04] Marcella: Yes. And it came from my own experience of nobody knowing how to fix me. And then I found these people, and I was like, oh my gosh, you guys are incredible. Let's fix people together.

[00:33:16] Luke: That one of the things that drew me to your work. Because I've had a lot of stem cells, PRP, and exosomes, and all that stuff. And like I was saying before, um, who knows how much worse my case would be had I never done that?

[00:33:31] Marcella: Sure. Yeah. 

[00:33:31] Luke: And I'm sure it's all been helpful. Um, and in some cases, it has been noticeably helpful. But one thing that's has baffled me is that, um, none of those practitioners have included any movement into it. Because I can see the movement people, the functional movement people, the ancestral people--

[00:33:49] Marcella: Right. And they're not talking to the people who are doing the treatments.

[00:33:52] Luke: And they're like, dude, you can go shoot all the shit you want into your knee, or elbow, or wherever, and if you're not repatterning the ways that you move, you're not going to get the result. And then the medical people are like, we can go move all you want. You have arthritis in this joint, and we need to get some fluid in there and get it healed.

So it's like, I found there's all these, um, very qualified and legitimate experts in their siloed areas of expertise that aren't crossing their wires and integrating. I think that was a really interesting part of what you do, is you have this team of all these different people that are approaching that not only in the diagnostic process, but also in the actual procedure and in the aftercare. Okay. So that's reveal, then restore.

[00:34:39] Marcella: So restore and revitalize, I'm going to lump together to explain this three-day process of a multi-layered system where we're reprogramming the nervous system from the ground up. So restore and revitalize is what we're doing. Starting at the base, the molecules and cells, we do a laser-activated plasma procedure, which is a simple IV. Blood is drawn, spun down.

We shine a very particular laser through that to activate the plasma. And then we re-inject that through the IV. At the same time that we are re-injecting and passing that same laser over your body, at the same time you're getting that infusion of the activated plasma, we are also doing functional tissue mobilization, which is this deep tissue work that Dr. Mattina does. And you may remember that it's very intense. 

And what we're doing is, uh, forcing out the inflammatory, um, fluid and resetting the tissue with deep tissue, uh, work, but it's not deep tissue massage. It's very specific. There's actually really good peer-reviewed data. When you do this very specific functional tissue, you're able to reset the tissue so that then it's able to perform better afterwards. It's able to feel better afterwards.

So at the same time we're giving the laser-activated plasma, we're resetting the tissue. That's the next layer up. And then an additional layer that's interwoven with that is the biologic decoding, which is a conversation between myself and the patient, and some of the team members participate as well. And we're looking at the psychological and life circumstance, roots of problem.

[00:36:29] Luke: Awesome. 

[00:36:30] Marcella: And I'll pause on that and see what you can remember. Because it's a lot at once. 

[00:36:34] Luke: Yeah. I want to dig into that because that's something about this experience that was really interesting. Okay. I've put some of the pieces together. Like, oh, I had a physical injury in my hip X years ago, right?

[00:36:46] Marcella: Right. 

[00:36:47] Luke: And then because of the work that I've done on myself, and shadow work, and emotional trauma, healing, and things like this, I've had insights into, especially, that my problem is in the pelvic area. And when I was a kid, I experienced sexual abuse, and, um, you don't have to be a rocket scientist to figure out that there could be a correlation between issues around your pelvis and you being violated.

[00:37:12] Marcella: Right. Yeah. 

[00:37:13] Luke: And so I've done a lot of healing work around that, and I don't know that it's ever something you're totally done, healing. It's a pretty profound injury psychologically, um, but what was interesting is doing that biological-- what did you call it? 

[00:37:28] Marcella: Biological decoding. 

[00:37:29] Luke: Decoding. Yeah, yeah. I don't have all the names down. There was a lot happening in a few days, so forgive me. But when we were doing the procedure and getting the injections, and that work is being done, and the whole room is praying, and my goals and affirmations are being read out loud, I mean, I had really profound emotional healing at the same time, akin to something that I would experience in therapy, or even in a plant medicine ceremony, or something of that nature. 

And I'm laying there going like, what the fuck? Also just the vulnerability of it for me. I mean, had I not felt the level of trust with your team and the emotional safety of that container, I don't know that I would have been able to be that vulnerable. I think it really was the first time in a medical setting, involving lasers, and injections, and a legitimate doctor, neurosurgeon.

And I'm having this emotional healing, and really being held in a beautiful way by your team. And I remember laying there just going, ah, this is it. This is what people need, at least people that have something that they've been stuck with that they haven't been able to fully overcome. Yeah. I think, especially for me, the emotional and spiritual components of it and really acknowledging that in the process of the procedure was really powerful for me.

Because I know, yeah, there is a purely physical component, but there's definitely a psychological and maybe even karmic and spiritual part of it too. So my question is, um, and I was crying and having this emotional cathartic experience. Is that common? Was the way I was responding the way it goes most of the time? Or was I different in any way?

[00:39:24] Marcella: One of the things I'm most proud of for myself and my team is our consistency in producing success with this process because, I love the way you put it, of all the things we put in the container. So in a short period of time, to describe all the things we're doing, I think container's a great word because I mentioned the laser-activated plasma. I mentioned the deep, uh, functional tissue mobilization. 

Um, immediately after that, uh, session, there's also physical training. There is the activation of the cells, which I didn't mention before, which during the laser shining through the plasma, once it's been, uh, prepared after we get it out of you, we are reading your goals aloud, um, so that the whole room is in the vibration. All the people that are taking care of you are getting the vibration of what we're trying to create. The same thing you mentioned earlier about creating-- you want to envision the future, and then you match the vibration. So to answer your question, does this happen every time? Yeah.

[00:40:34] Luke: Really?

[00:40:35] Marcella: Yeah. And we've had massive emotional releases. We've had people tell us things that they haven't told anybody. Um, and it's because nobody's doing this. Nobody's connecting things that happen in your life. It could be remote life. And some of it is transgenerational too, and you may not even know it. But just letting your body hear that that may or may not be your stuff, and that's okay, and we're just going to talk through it, and then we're going to release it, that process, when people come ready for the experience, it happens that way every time.

And I would say, because of the investment that this experience is, people come ready to work. Because if you're going to-- I mean, work in a way that of allowing the body to do what it needs to do to heal. So, um, the other thing I was going to say is that this idea of connecting things that happened to you in your past to current, uh, pains and disease, I used to think it was interesting, and now, we've reproduced it over and over and over.

There is always something that comes out in these sessions. Always. And it doesn't matter if it matches perfectly what the book says. There are books about this, um, because it's whatever that person is experiencing in your body. Your body is a whole person. All your molecules are connected. All those vibrations are connected, and they're carrying things that came from your life and before, and these painful experiences we've all had.

So whatever comes out in that session is going to be healing for your body. And I think that's part of why this works so well. Yes, the laser is wonderful. Yes, the plasma is wonderful. Yes, the deep tissue work is wonderful. And yes, the training is wonderful. But because we're offering such a bunch of healing in the container, it just elevates the healing for all of it.

[00:42:31] Luke: Yeah, well, I'm glad to hear that your staff is used to someone losing their shit.

[00:42:37] Marcella: Every time. That's a success for us.

[00:42:38] Luke: Because there were moments-- in a situation like that, one is often faced with self-consciousness that can come up. It's like I'm talking about deeply personable, vulnerable stuff, and what's coming up, and I'm crying, and sometimes I'd open my eyes and go, I don't even know these people. You know what I'm saying? It's like, just trust, Luke. You're safe.

[00:43:01] Marcella: I always just tell people, this is why you're here. You ended up on this table for a reason.

[00:43:07] Luke: Yeah. Well, I'm relieved to hear that I wasn't-- 

[00:43:12] Marcella: You're not alone. 

[00:43:13] Luke: That that's the case with anyone else. I don't know. Like I said, it was actually involuntary. The emotional depth that I was taken to, it wasn't like I decided, ooh, I'm going to get into the nooks and crannies of my trauma. It's just like, oh shit, I think my body was really speaking to me and saying, hey, we're here too. We were part of those experiences. 

It wasn't just psychological, emotional, mental. It's like the body remembers. Just like it remembers physical injuries, it remembers, um, emotional injuries and insults as well. So yeah, that was really powerful. And I remember just being like, oh yeah, this is it. There's something happening here that hasn't happened before. 

[00:43:57] Marcella: Yes. 

[00:43:58] Luke: Um, tell us a little more about the laser-activated PRP. What makes that laser different than other cold lasers on the market? I've worked with lasers a lot. I have one here. It's called a PowerMedic laser, and I've used it for a lot of things, and it's useful. And I've had some more hardcore lasers from practitioners that are home-use models. Um, this one is much different, I think, in its level of sophistication. Uh, what can you tell us about how that plays into the treatment?

[00:44:30] Marcella: Yes, so this is, uh, Dr. Todd Ovokaitys is the inventor of this laser, and it's called the Laser Qi, or I think they actually changed the name recently. But, um, it is only available to licensees of his protocol. So it's for, uh, physicians, other care providers that he's licensed to. And there are only I think about 15 in the world that have it right now. Um, it is a red light. The light is not what is distinguishing about it. It's a 670-nanometer light. But the optics, uh, behind the light actually create a, um, different shape of the wave so that the wave itself is able to deliver photons deeper than just the typical red light surface.

Um, when Dr. Todd was working with this laser, originally, he had some landmark discoveries in the lab, and then he has a couple of papers talking about the ability of this laser to activate cells within plasma. Um, that is part of what I think is likely special about this laser. I also think that vibrationally aligning the plasma includes, yes, some cells, but also other growth factors and molecules.

People have been studying laser-activated plasma for a long time and already proven elsewhere that it's effective. So this is an advancement beyond other types of laser-activated plasma. When I talk to patients about this, the best way to think of this is that we know that light has incredible power for healing, and this is a new different way of harnessing that same technology. But it definitely is different than other lasers that you can buy as a consumer. It's specific for these treatments.

[00:46:18] Luke: I think we met at Paleo FX a few years ago, you and I. Um, I don't remember if I met you or Dr. Todd before, but I met him at my friend Daniel Raphael's house. And he was there doing a salon and explaining his technology to people. And I couldn't afford his treatment at the time, but he did a little laser action on me. 

He's really just such a knowledgeable guy. Just a wild guy. So he's explaining the way the laser works. Just going way over my head. I had no idea what he was talking about, but one thing I do remember is he was working on my eyes, and he said, as I shine this on the side of your temple, um, this laser is going all the way through your head and hitting the wall across the room. And I was like, that's interesting.

[00:47:03] Marcella: Without burning you. I didn't say that, but that's one of the key distinguishing things, is that you're able to get that depth of penetration without the tissue damage because of the internal hologram that he created that is proprietary that changes the shape of the wave.

[00:47:18] Luke: Okay. Interesting. Yeah. So that got my attention. I was like, one day I'm going to follow up on this, and then met you, and here we are. And as I understand it with what you're doing with the plasma is the laser acts as a homing device.

[00:47:35] Marcella: It does two things. Yeah. It activates the plasma and makes it more able to do its healing work, number one. And then number two, when you shine the laser where you want the cells to go or where you want that plasma to go, they will go there. And the way that we know that that works is based on the clinical results in our patients who have experienced it.

[00:47:59] Luke: Cool. I found that to be really interesting too because you're taking the blood out, you're spinning it down, and then hitting it with the laser, then injecting it into your arm in an IV, so it's just systemic, which is very different than other procedures I've had with biologics, where they're being injected right into the site of concern.

[00:48:18] Marcella: Right. And you can do that with this, but for many things, you don't have to. And especially when we add Aqua, when we do all our Aqua things, which are the functional tissue mobilization, and the training, and the mind-body work, and the three-day iteration of these treatments, in my clinical experience, the Aqua Method is as effective as doing injections under anesthesia, which is incredible. It's less invasive.

[00:48:43] Luke: Wow. Yeah. I don't like going under anesthesia.

[00:48:46] Marcella: Nobody does. Yeah.

[00:48:48] Luke: It's creepy every time. And I've only done it a few times, but every time, I'm like, what if I don't come back? I'm not done. Because you're gone. The last time I went to, um, Dr. John Lieurance's clinic down in Florida, and we just did-- I think we were using ketamine and nitrous oxide. Um, so it wasn't anesthesia, anesthesia, but I was totally disassociated. Had that feeling, and I was like, ugh, I don't know where I am, but I'm not in the room anymore. It's not a comfortable feeling. 

[00:49:18] Marcella: Yeah. So, um, the last piece, we call it revel because it's a celebration and also a forward motion. Not only do we work on you for three days on these multiple layers, as I said, so molecular, cellular, with the cells and plasma, and then tissue with the tissue work, and then whole body with the training, and then interwoven with the decoding and the mind, body, spirit, all of that is happening, but then we don't just let you fly away. We celebrate successes. We give you a coaching template of how to take all this stuff forward. Um, included are two sessions with our trainer online, so you get to incorporate those, uh, exercises at home so you know what to do.

[00:50:06] Luke: Which is very helpful. Matt and I did them on Zoom. And luckily, I have a big monitor down in the office. I'd move the monitor, and he would basically critique my movements and run me through it, which is really a helpful, uh, part of it. Because in my experience, I work with someone who's a movement specialist, and they show me the things, and then they take some videos on my iPhone, and then I get home, and I'm like, wait, what was it?

And I just get it down. So doing a couple follow ups with him was really helpful because then by the time we did the two, I could memorize them. And then now I can just do them anytime. Like yesterday, I was watching the sunset, and I was like, ah, what am I going to do? I've got a few minutes here. I was like, oh, I'll do that one. I don't even know what the moves called, but basically just-- the glute activation.

[00:50:49] Marcella: Yes, I was just going to say glute activation. Got it.

[00:50:51] Luke: I was like, oh, this is cool. Now that I have integrated that and I know what it is and the purpose of doing it, it motivates me to just do it ad hoc when I'm just out and about. So anyway, carry on.

[00:51:02] Marcella: Yeah. So we give you the exercises to do on your own. We give you these two sessions with Matt, incredibly gifted, on Zoom, so it's very easy to get in your own environment and get set up. And then give you, as I said, a coaching template of what to take forward. Part of that decoding process that we've done in the three-day container is create mantras that are very specific, reversals of the problems that are the psychological life things that contributed to your pain.

So if you've had something negative happen in your life that we think might be the root of what is going on with your back pain, we don't focus on what that negative problem is. We focus on the solution, and we give you a mantra for you to take forward. A short sentence. And we build these throughout the week. So over those three days, you might have five or 10 that you take forward with you. And we give those to you at the end. So again, you have something to celebrate and take forward with you, um, as you're continuing your healing journey.

[00:51:55] Luke: Yeah. I found that to be very useful too. And I have the recordings too. There were two recordings because I did the biological decoding with Amy, and then you did one with me, which, um, I think was having something to do with the Energy for Success.

[00:52:11] Marcella: Yes. The guided visualization that was adapted from Dr. Morguelan's Energy for Success that I personalized for your specific situation.

[00:52:18] Luke: Yeah. Because I'm a listener, I like audio. 

[00:52:21] Marcella: Yes.

[00:52:23] Luke: I like putting that on and just for my-- because when you do these procedures, it's very common that-- even when you just go on any retreat, you go home, and you just get back into the inertia of your life, and you forget that it happened. And then some time goes by, and you're like, I don't know if that really worked because there's not really anything to do or integrate afterward that at least, in many cases, is not concrete. 

So it's the affirmations, listening to those audios, doing the sessions with Matt, the movement sessions. The accountability of my success is now on me too, because if my body starts feeling weird, because this happened a couple of times, I'm like, I don't know. My back's hurting today. Did that work? And I go, well, have you been doing your exercises, Luke? It's like, well, kind of. All right.

 It's a partnership approach where I'm just laying there. Okay, fix me. It's like there are things that I can and hopefully will do to help facilitate that. Uh, for you guys listening, uh, that want to check out the Aqua Method, you can go to lukestorey.com/aquamethod, and you'll get all the show notes from everything we're talking about today. Uh, you can also get a $1,000 off, uh, by going to energyforsuccess.com/luke.

[00:53:42] Marcella: Uh, the 1,000 off is a separate thing. If they want to do the Aqua Method, they call my office for a $1,000 off. And then there's a free guided visualization.

[00:53:51] Luke: That's the thing. Okay. So energyforsuccess.com/luke. Free guided visualization, which I highly recommend. They're very powerful. And if you just want to get all the information here, lukestorey.com/aquamethod. 

Let's talk about the importance of social relationships as it relates to healing. Say someone's having physical pain, and you're diagnosing that, and you, as a practitioner, are working with them, and they have a lack of cohesion or support in their immediate family, community, friendship group and are all alone, how important is the emotional connection and support when it comes to healing?

[00:54:36] Marcella: Got it. So I would look at that in two ways, both the chicken and egg thing, because I have seen patients whose physical pain is a result of the lack of social relationships and support. And so when I'm working with someone, looking at what their total life picture is, that is part of our consultation. That is one of the things we talk about, is what is your support system?

And invariably, when people have less social interaction, less things that are bringing them joy-- I mean, some people are introverts, so it's going to be individualized. But everybody should have at least 1, 2, 3, 4 very close relationships that are able to give us that oxytocin baseline. That's the love hormone that we all thrive on. That's the whole point of being here. 

And when you don't have that, either it's going to cause you to have a pain problem, or a disease, or some medical problem. Or if you want to say that they're separate, which I actually don't think they are, I think they're all intertwined. But if you want to say that they're separate, then if you're dealing with trying to heal something, my belief is we are not put on this planet to be alone. And so the more support, the better. But my opinion also is tempered that if it's energetically supportive.

Because you can certainly have family members and people who say they're supporting when there's more draining that's going on than supporting. And that is very true with people with complex medical disease that people that have been through so much-- a lot of my patients have been through a lot of complex things or multiple surgeries before with other people, and they still have pain.

And that's very, very draining on an individual. It's also very, very draining on a family. So even though the family is trying to support, it might not be a win-win supportive, uh, situation. So to answer your question, I think it's highly important and really nuanced.

[00:56:53] Luke: Yeah. Uh, the emotional component I found to be huge when it comes to healing, I just felt like there have been times in my life in the past where I was going through a lot of emotional duress, especially in the context of relationships. And it made me physically ill in different ways. It's crazy. I think nowadays people are starting to connect those two, but we used to have this very, I don't know, reductionist approach to this. You go see your psychiatrist for this, and then this for this, and then your medical doctor for that.

[00:57:26] Marcella: It's all the same stuff. And that's one of the reasons I started this practice. I remember very clearly a patient who had this horrible leg pain, horrible, and nothing on her images. I mean, nothing. And I started asking about her life, and oh my god, like the story that came from-- it's like it was just no question that this difficult life circumstance, or difficult relationship, or difficult emotional response to whatever is going on. Everybody has something. We're all here dealing with all our things. There's no question in my mind that that is the root of disease.

[00:57:58] Luke: Yeah, I'm going back. I mentioned Joe Dispenza earlier, and, um, I don't know if you're familiar with his work, but I've been to a couple of his workshops and, uh, or intensives, I guess he calls them. They're five, seven days, and I love them. I wish I could go to more. But what's been really interesting is, um, he has a huge medical staff there and scientists and stuff that are doing QEGs on people, and blood work, and they're quantifying the effects of these metaphysical practices. The breathing techniques, the meditations and stuff. 

And he's got people with chronic diseases, sometimes, uh, potentially fatal diseases that are reversing them just from doing this emotional work. And it's crazy. And he gets criticism from people that are, I call them pseudoscience or whatever, because he's dealing in the quantum. It's the unseen realms, and you can't quantify it, but you can quantify if someone is sick and then they do this thing for a few months or a couple of years, this practice, and then they're not sick anymore.

It's like, call it what you will, but I think it's exciting that more people are becoming open to, uh, like you have, a more comprehensive approach and not ignoring things like your relationships, and your emotional health, and healing your emotional trauma, and all these parts, rather than just trying to go at it from a physical standpoint.

[00:59:16] Marcella: For sure.

[00:59:17] Luke: So as I said earlier, we've been a month out or something. I'm feeling great in my body. I feel like I'm continuing to heal. The more of my homework I do, the better it gets. Days I skip, it's less so. So like I said, it's a fire under my house. But I was going over, uh, to prep my notes, and you guys have had a 70 to 100% improvement in chronic pain patients. I mean, that's pretty staggering. From where are you deriving these results?

[00:59:45] Marcella: Yeah, so our response rate at the end of Aqua Method, um, at the end of the three days, we have our 100% response rate, meaning every patient has responded at the end of that three days. And then the response rate, the stick rate is about 90%. So there's a couple of people that have gone through this process that did not maintain their improvements for a multitude of complicated reasons.

The variability has to do with the complexity of the disease that we started with. And so we have a 100% response at the end of three days. So everybody gets better by the end of three days. And then the reason that it doesn't stick has to do more with what happens after that, um, and also how complex the disease was to start with. 

Um, the other key thing is that in our patients that have chronic pain that has not been healed with other modalities, and we're talking all kinds of other modalities, we have a 70 to 100% reduction in pain, meaning wipe it out completely down to wipe it out 70 percent. So basically better than half of wiping out severe chronic pain, which is a separate category than are people with more acute stuff or less complex stuff. 

[01:01:07] Luke: Got it. And what would be some indications for something like the Aqua Method? I get a lot of questions of people, oh, I have a herniated disc or a slipped disc. This seems to be something I don't know if people really even know what that is. I don't necessarily know. This seems to a common thing when people have back pain. They think it's that, or they've been told it's that. What are some indications that would be appropriate for the Aqua Method versus some where you would be like, okay, I got to go back old school and do traditional surgery on this? 

[01:01:41] Marcella: Right. So the sweet spot for these treatments are pain in a joint, and I would say the back pain, neck pain, knee pain, hip pain, shoulder pain, arthritic musculoskeletal stuff. Some people will come with a diagnosis of a slipped disc or a diagnosis of arthritis, but many times, what they're coming with is not what we end up saying that we think it is, but that's okay because anybody with an arthritic, or joint, or old sports injury, or nagging golf hip, or, um, nagging back pain they've had for a long time or even a short time, within that spectrum of patients that have those things, you have patients who are early or mild, meaning maybe they've had it a few years, but they never had a procedure. They never had surgery. 

Um, or all the way to people that have had back pain for 20 years and have had five surgeries, and now have chronic pain after that. And so the people on the more complex side, we can still address. They might be in that closer to 70% improvement or might need multiple treatments to get the result that they're wanting. Or they might do Aqua first and then do injections later to get the next dent in their improvement. 

But that's a small subset. That's for the most complex people. The less complex people that have maybe never had surgery before, only had mild stuff before, maybe had some injections before, or got better and then got worse again, um, the sweet spot is musculoskeletal pain. And then we have a whole slew of other things that we do that are separate from Aqua Method for other neurologic disease.

Um, and then one last thing, people with severe spinal cord compression and severe nerve compression, we will have a very clear conversation that there is some risk to waiting to have surgery to see if this could help. We have done it with people who thought they were going to need surgery for their low backs with a large herniated disc, for example, and haven't had to have surgery, and have been neurologically stable and improving. But that's a narrow subset of people that are majorly surgical that can get away without surgery. So to answer your question, it's a range, and we dive deep into this in the consultation and get you the right solution. 

[01:04:01] Luke: Got it. And then in terms of uh, cost, the Aqua Method at this present time isn't covered by insurance, right? 

[01:04:09] Marcella: Correct.

[01:04:10] Luke: Um, and I'm assuming that other more traditional surgeries are covered by insurance. 

[01:04:16] Marcella: Yeah.

[01:04:17] Luke: Do you run into issues with potential clients that are like, well, I don't really want to get surgery, but my insurance is going to cover that, and they're not going to cover the Aqua Method, so I'm going to do what the insurance covers?

[01:04:30] Marcella: Yeah, I mean that's a decision that everybody comes to that gets a second opinion. But sometimes people will have a surgical recommendation elsewhere, and they'll come and see me. And I always say, the medical system is not incentivized to let you heal yourself, which is what this is. And it's not built that way. There's so many people making so much money off of that surgery, and it's not win-win for you.

It's going to hurt more. It's going to make you suffer for a couple weeks until you recover. And as a surgeon, I know this for sure. And there are plenty of things that a surgery is good for, but if you can avoid it, what is that worth to you? And that's what people have to decide. Um, so I would say most of the time when people come and they've been told that they need surgery, and they're feeling it out, um, most of them end up being my patients because they'd rather take a financial risk and then the medical, uh, and pain risk of the surgery if I tell them that I think that this other thing will work.

I mean, sometimes, apples are apples, if I say, you know what, surgery is as good or better than anything else over here, and I'm out of network for surgery, then they might go elsewhere because surgery is still a good thing. And it happens occasionally. Totally cool.

[01:05:52] Luke: Right. And if someone was paying cash for surgery versus paying cash for the Aqua Method. The Aqua Method is what, 20% of what surgery typically costs?

[01:06:01] Marcella: Yeah. I mean, it depends on how much of the surgery-- if you're completely not covered under insurance and you have to have a lumbar fusion, yeah, it's at least 30 to 50 to 100,000 depending on how many levels, and where you're doing it, and what hospital, and what part of the country. And the Aqua Method is 25.

[01:06:18] Luke: Right. Um, yeah, I didn't even think about this in terms of other procedures, but I wasn't sore or anything after this. The hardest part about the Aqua Method was the training with Matt. It was like each day you're doing injections and all this stuff. I'm like, this is the easy part. I'm like, oh shit, I got to work with Matt. And it was crazy because to anyone who's really fit, the stuff that he was doing is-- I mean, it's not like you're lifting heavy weights or something. It's like body weight stuff and just stretching. 

It made me realize how out of shape I am because he's like, stand on one leg and just lean forward. I don't know what he's doing. I'm like, oh, 30 seconds. I'm dying. And he's being compassionate and patient with me, but I could see in his face, like, dude, this should not be hard.

[01:07:08] Marcella: Right.

[01:07:10] Luke: He's like, trust me, it gets so much easier, and he's right. Yesterday when I was watching the sunset, I was like, oh, I could actually do this for a while. And the first day with him, I mean, dude, each day, I was smoked. And I was sore after the procedure, after the three days, but it wasn't sore from any of the injections or any of the medical stuff. 

[01:07:29] Marcella: Your body was-- 

[01:07:30] Luke: It's like my glutes were activated time in 20 years or whatever. And so when I checked in with him, he's like, how you doing? I'm like, ah, I feel pretty sore, man. It's like, oh, it's just muscle soreness, like if you hadn't worked out in a long time. But yeah, now that you say that and other just stem cell treatments and different things I've had, they've been pretty hardcore and invasive, and a lot of swelling, and just can't walk very easily afterward and things like that. So the medical part of this for me was very easy and virtually no recovery. It was just those damn workouts.

[01:08:07] Marcella: Yeah. Well, and that's the thing people ask. I have gotten the question, like, why is it so expensive? And I mean, you think about the tradeoffs that you're making, we are teaching you as a bunch of care providers. It's not just me and the patient. It's all of these professionals, like all of these degreed professionals, a bunch of them working on you at once.

[01:08:28] Luke: Yeah. It's like the Avengers.

[01:08:29] Marcella: Yes, that's a really good comparison. I like that.

[01:08:32] Luke: I don't know if that's trademarked, but you could come up with some version of that. 

[01:08:35] Marcella: The Aquavengers. Um, but it's all of this brain power that is delivered to you for then you to learn how to do it yourself. And you just cannot really compare it to other treatments. That's why, um, I love to do interviews like this to dive deeper into it so people can really understand. You can't say, okay, I could go down the street and get a bunch of stem cell injections, uh, for the same price as I could go and do Aqua Method. They are very, very different. And then you have to decide.

And that's why we do this deep dive, two-hour consult with our patients before we sign up for this because you got to understand, what does it mean for you? Am I ready to dig deep into these life experiences? Am I really ready to heal from that thing that I never told anybody ever? I mean, those are the people that end up choosing this. And, oh, by the way, you don't have to have any shots in your body and any swelling. 

[01:09:26] Luke: Yeah. Oh, my PT guy, Alex, uh, Rybczynski, who I saw this morning, and my neck is feeling amazing. Thank you, Alex. Since I got the new teeth in, it's a whole thing. When you walked in, you're like, how you doing? I'm like, man, I'm working on a lot of stuff. Let me track what we did, which was a month ago. But he wanted me to ask you, um, in terms of the biologics, or I guess any of the work you're doing, have you ever seen, uh, ligaments heal, like a torn labrum or something actually become whole again?

[01:09:59] Marcella: Great question. In a case by case occasional MRI now and an MRI later, I have seen disc improvement, and I have seen tissue improvement. Now, was that because of the cell treatment or the biologic treatment? Was it the body healed it itself? Nobody knows. That's why, if you look in the literature, there aren't thousands of papers that say you can treat your body with stem cells and then get a new lumbar disc.

There's actually only one or two papers, and they haven't been able to be reproduced the last time I've looked. Um, because doing these studies, you can't control for what the body is going to do on its own. So to answer your question, my typical answer across the board when patients ask me, is my MRI to get better? I'm going to say, I do not care. I want you to feel better because you can have a torn labrum in your hip and have zero symptoms. You can have a completely wiped out disc on your lumbar spine MRI and have zero symptoms.

It is not about the images. It is not about the images. And I will go to my grave talking about that on TV because that's one of the key things in surgical training that was ingrained in us, is that, okay, bad image, surgery fix. And it doesn't have to be that way. That can work. And if it's a very severe compressed spinal cord, and the person is quadriplegic, and then you decompress their spinal cord, and they can move again, that is accurate. But it's not accurate for every single disease, every single imaging abnormality.

[01:11:35] Luke: All right. And I remember when we looked at my hip images, you said there was a little arthritis in there, and that totally freaked me out. And you're like, ah, that's no big deal. I'm like, dude, arthritis. 

[01:11:45] Marcella: Yeah. 

[01:11:46] Luke: It's like I don't even know what arthritis is exactly, but you didn't seem concerned about it. So I was like, all right. She's not worried about it. I guess I'm not either.

[01:11:54] Marcella: Yeah. I mean, that's another big thing I do in all my second opinion, um, consultations, is demystify and deescalate the fear about this diagnosis, or this imaging finding, or, oh my god, I have this. What does that mean? I don't know what it means. Your other doctors don't know what it means either. Let's get you optimally healthy and see what your body can do on its own, and then maybe we'll add some other cool technology to it and see how your body can take advantage of that. But the diagnosis itself doesn't have to be this big, scary monster. It's all fixable.

[01:12:34] Luke: Right. Because someone could show an arthritic joint on their MRI and have zero pain.

[01:12:40] Marcella: Zero. Yeah. 

[01:12:41] Luke: So it's like, what does that really mean? 

[01:12:43] Marcella: Yeah. But it's very personal when it's you. It's like, oh my gosh, I have this thing. I totally get it. I have a huge amount of compassion for it. Um, but it's also like, that's what our medical system has done. Make it scary so that they'll go and have the surgery so that we can churn the money. And everybody gets paid, and the insurance companies get paid, and the hospitals get paid, all the people paid.

[01:13:04] Luke: I want to actually talk about some of the other services that you provide outside of the Aqua Method. That's my only experience of the work, but are you doing the stem cell facials and breast enhancement, sexual optimization, hair rejuvenation? Tell us about all that.

[01:13:18] Marcella: Yes. Thank you. Thank you for that. We added some cosmetic and anti-aging stuff to our practice, mainly because patients kept asking over and over, can you use this stem cell technology for my whatever? Sexual health, hair, face. And so we started doing it, and yes, um, I learned that from Dr. Todd Ovokaitys and his team. 

And the thing that I like the best, the two things we have the most success with are the stem cell facial, which is a micro needling procedure. And then the liquid you use for the microneedling is actually the laser-activated plasma, so same stuff. We just paint it on the face after microneedling, and then we'll also laser the face afterwards. It's as effective as about three conventional vampire PRP facials. So again, this is the laser plasma. This is stronger than the PRP that you can get from most places. And then we can also add exosomes to that, um, if people want. And then we can also do, uh, injections for hair. 

[01:14:23] Luke: 

[01:14:23] Marcella: So for the face and hair and male and female rejuvenation, we do have multiple procedures for all of those. They include the laser-activated plasma, the same procedure that you had. My favorite is the face rejuvenation that we do with microneedling, and then we also can inject the face with that laser-activated plasma, and then also pass the laser over the face as well.

So that is about as strong as three typical vampire facials that you would get elsewhere, and this actually has activated stem cells, and we can also add exosomes to it. So that's my favorite of all those things. But we do hair rejuvenation. We do male and female sexual optimization, and the face, as I mentioned. Yes.

[01:15:03] Luke: Tell me the deets on the sexual optimization. Years ago, and I did a podcast about it. We'll put it in the show notes for those interested. lukestorey.com/quamethod are the show notes for this. It was with Dr. Harry Adelson and Amy Killen. 

[01:15:17] Marcella: Yes. 

[01:15:18] Luke: And I went out to Utah, and they're like, well, do you want the whole meal deal? I'm like, yeah. So I didn't quite get Amy's part of it was, uh, penile, uh, stem cell injections. And like, yeah, do it. And I think they did my face, and my spine, and all kinds of stuff. Um, I wasn't having any noticeable problems in that area. So I don't know if I would have had ED or something. And then she did that. 

And then I'm like, I'm rocking and rolling after that. But I got to say, for my age, I'm no spring chicken. I think it probably did have a positive effect, um, on the sexual enhancement end of it. Um, what does that procedure look like in your clinic, and what results have you seen with people doing their private parts?

[01:16:03] Marcella: Yes. What we do for both men and women is we use that same laser-activated plasma that has the activated V-cells, very small embryonic-like stem cells, and that laser-activated cell fluid is injected into the penis for men, and then for women, we can do IV injection and just laser the female genitalia if they don't want injections, or we can also inject the female genitalia.

I'd say for women it's about 50-50, women wanting injections. For men, I would say most of the men go for injections because I do think the injections make it a stronger treatment. And for the men, what we've seen is, um, with a post treatment pumping protocol, we've seen significant change in length and girth.

[01:16:47] Luke: Really?

[01:16:48] Marcella: Yes.

[01:16:49] Luke: You just probably got a lot of male customers. Medicine's been trying to crack that code for decades.

[01:16:55] Marcella: Yeah. So we do the injections and the laser at the same time. And we also use a nitric oxide, so it actually makes it-- still hurts, they say, but it's a much more pleasant or easy to go through procedure when you have the nitrous. Um, and then, in men, another consistent result we have seen is morning erection for lots of guys. That's what they report back. 

[01:17:18] Luke: Wow. That's amazing. I forgot about that. And when I went and did it too, um, so funny. They hired a video crew because I couldn't bring a video person. So they hired someone, and they didn't tell the guy that it was going to be a medical procedure. He thought he was just shooting an interview, and then they're like, cool, interview's over, so set up, and we're going to put Luke under anesthesia. And they do the whole thing, and the poor guy kept passing out and having to leave the room because there's all this blood. 

[01:17:46] Marcella: Oh, gosh.

[01:17:48] Luke: My junk's out and bloody, and God knows what. And what's funny is it's on YouTube for anyone that wants to watch it. I've never watched it because it would freak me out to see myself like, ah, drooling and bloody. But yeah, I put it on YouTube, and they never took it down. I mean, I'm sure there's a sheet over there or whatever, but yeah, that was one of the funniest podcast recordings.

They're like, yeah, the poor guy, he kept having to leave the room. He's turning green and just going out in the hall to take some breaths. And then I give the footage to the video editor, just like, who shot this? Who's the amateur that couldn't hold the camera straight? Poor guy's like, ah, just shaking the camera.

[01:18:23] Marcella: Oh my God.

[01:18:23] Luke: Oh, that's funny. Okay. So men are having the morning wood.

[01:18:27] Marcella: Oh, and then women, uh, women's results, I would say are, uh, more arousal and general feeling of wellness. And I will say that this particular technology seems to be, for the women, you don't need the injections to make it work. And the injections, as I may have said before, uh, I would say most women choose not to have injections, and it works great without injections. 

[01:18:54] Luke: Wow, So cool. How much of your business over at Austin Integrative Spine is the Aqua Method versus some of these just, um, other menu items?

[01:19:08] Marcella: Yeah. I would say our Aqua Method is maybe 25%, and then the other 75% is a mixture of treating brain and spine disease with other things that are-- more severe brain and spine disease. We have proprietary protocols for treating those things, and then a small amount cosmetic and sexual rejuvenation.

[01:19:33] Luke: Okay. And in terms of the, um, brain injuries and things like that, what do you employ there? And then for what kind of conditions?

[01:19:41] Marcella: Yes. So, with Dr. Ovokaitys's technology, we've had it for a couple years, and we've found a couple of sweet spots in terms of neurologic disease. I get a lot of questions about a lot of rare and unusual diseases, and we've treated a lot of different things, and I'm going to talk about the sweet spots, and then if you have any other thing that you might want to consider, just call us. We can even do a free 15-minute consultation with one of our team members to see if that particular thing might be a good fit.

The sweet spots that we have found are recovering a head injury from mild all the way to severe, from recent all the way back, more than 10 years ago. Um, both adult and pediatric. And then also, we have protocols for spinal cord injury and spinal cord disease, um, autoimmune spinal cord disease. Um, again, these are complex medical issues, and so we go through a lengthy intake process to make sure that it's a good fit. But we do have proprietary protocols for a lot of neurologic issues. 

[01:20:44] Luke: That's cool because people ask me about TBIs a lot. 

[01:20:47] Marcella: Yes. 

[01:20:47] Luke: And my answer is, because so many people have them, and I don't think many people are aware of how detrimental they can be to your quality of life, and I'm always just like, do a bunch of hyperbaric. 

[01:20:57] Marcella: Totally.

[01:20:58] Luke: That's my only answer because I haven't met anyone, until this moment, that has another viable solution.

[01:21:03] Marcella: I can tell you this. When we started with the traumatic brain injury, I knew this technology was going to be good. Um, I didn't know how good it was going to be. It's really good for traumatic brain injury. And I'm at an early phase of figuring out the optimal protocol, how many treatments. This is not a one treatment and you're perfect. It's usually a multi treatment process, but it's definitely impressive.

[01:21:30] Luke: Awesome. What about things like, uh, Parkinson's, MS, Lou Gehrig's, any of this stuff? 

[01:21:36] Marcella: Great question. What I think is the reason that these things I mentioned already are the sweet spots are that those are pathologies or problems where the insult has already happened. There's an insult a year ago, a week ago, 10 years ago, and then the brain is recovering over time, slowly, or maybe it's plateaued, but the insult already happened.

In neurodegenerative disease or progressive disease that keeps that neurodegeneration is happening. It's not the insult back here. It keeps insulting and insulting and insulting. We have had some success with a couple of specific neurodegenerative issues when they're treated very, very early and multiple treatments, but it's not a cure or reversal. It's a maintenance, uh, situation. 

[01:22:29] Luke: Okay. Got it.

[01:22:29] Marcella: So it is doable, but it's a very different thing when you have an ongoing disease process.

[01:22:36] Luke: Okay, cool, cool. What's this, uh, WAVi scan?

[01:22:41] Marcella: Oh, yeah. Um, so WAVi is a-- 

[01:22:42] Luke: I just picked up some things from the website that I didn't get when I was working with you. And I was like, there's things I didn't know about.

[01:22:49] Marcella: Yeah. WAVi is really cool. So, WAVi is a non-invasive brain test. It's an EEG, but you can do it in the office to test for your brain function. And you do it wide awake, no pain. You wear this little cap, and there's some interactive tasks that you do with a computer. And it's able to measure the brain reaction time to different tasks.

And we've seen changes pre and post our treatments with our patients with brain disease, for example, or with the traumatic brain injury where we test them before we do treatment, and then we test them after, and we see an improvement. 

[01:23:19] Luke: I love that. Yeah, I love, um, when you can quantify something. I don't know. I'm just a geek. I mean, I think everyone wants to know if something's working right, and you sometimes subjectively think, yeah, I think I feel better, but I like things like that that you can look at your test results, do the thing, look at the results again. Even lab work and stuff. It's just fun. Like, oh, I tested high for heavy metals, and I went and did a detox, and now they're lower. It's like, yes. It's a good incentive. Yeah. And then what about, uh, the oxidative stress analysis? 

[01:23:52] Marcella: Oh, yeah, we need to take that off the website.

[01:23:54] Luke: Okay. You don't do that?

[01:23:56] Marcella: Not anymore. 

[01:23:57] Luke: I'm going to pull out all the things that--

[01:23:58] Marcella: Yeah. Well, we need to update it. It was something we were doing as part of our functional medicine workup, and we actually switched platforms. So we actually have a different functional medicine lab panel that Katie Volkers, my nurse practitioner, is the lead on. And that is part of it kind of, but it's not that exact thing.

[01:24:15] Luke: Okay, and are you guys, um, working with NAD? 

[01:24:19] Marcella: So, great question. It's funny. You're the second person to ask me that today. We have access to it. We can get it, and we do it occasionally. My impression when we were using it with patients was I was not getting the bang for the buck that I wanted in terms of a treatment. My clinic is mostly treating people with stuff that they want fixed.

And our protocols with our laser plasma and our biologics are so strong and good, and they work well that I couldn't tell a difference whether somebody got better with NAD versus without. It doesn't mean it's not great for anti-aging and general wellness. It's just for the way that I do my practice now, I don't know that I need it. Does that make sense?

[01:25:07] Luke: Yeah, it makes sense. I mean, you're doing some next level stuff that I think is above and beyond. And something like working with NAD, I mean, you can go to Alive and Well, and I mean, it's not like you need to go to see a neurosurgeon to get it.

[01:25:22] Marcella: Yeah, exactly. And it's also about how we use our resources in our clinic. Like what are the things that we're going to be taking advantage of their skills and expertise for?

[01:25:33] Luke: Yeah, I just want to ask you, because you might have said something like, oh, yeah, you didn't know NAD does this, this, and this? I'm like, okay, cool. As long as I'm not missing anything.

[01:25:39] Marcella: No, no, no. I love NAD. I love it. I'm a big fan. We just didn't see, for our procedures, did we need it or not?

[01:25:46] Luke: Yeah, cool, cool. I recently, um, oh God, I hate it when I find a great brand. Um, ION Biome. I'll put it in the show notes, you guys, uh, at lukestorey.com/aquamethod. But I recently, um, a company reached out to me, and they do this transdermal NAD.

[01:26:04] Marcella: Love that idea.

[01:26:05] Luke: It's so cool. It's basically a little, um, electrical plus and minus sticker, and then you mix up the NAD, and you pour it on the plus side or the minus side, whatever it is. And then there's some saline, and you put this--

[01:26:18] Marcella: If that works, I'm in. The IV, personally, I was, this is horrible. It's not worth it. I did not like it. 

[01:26:26] Luke: It's called ION Biome? I feel so bad when I can't remember these things, but I get so many things. It's hard for me to keep up with the names. I mean, it gives you a lot of energy. 

[01:26:36] Marcella: Awesome.

[01:26:36] Luke: It's incredible. Yeah. And it lasts 12 hours or something. Um, and then, uh, John Lieurance makes, um, NAD suppositories, which are great too. NAD, I find most useful, uh, for flying. That's my silver bullet. If I'm going to fly, I put on one of those patches or do the Mito Zen suppository, and it's like, I mean, I don't know how to quantify it, but I would say maybe 50% less trashed from jet lag and just travel.

[01:27:04] Marcella: Well, I would say my thing for that is the guided visualization from Dr. Morguelan's Energy for Success. Ever since I started doing that, years and years ago, very, very little jet lag. And doing it twice a day, that's one of the gifts for the, uh, the audience. 

[01:27:20] Luke: Oh, cool.

[01:27:20] Marcella: Um, did we say that? 

[01:27:23] Luke: Yeah, I did. 

[01:27:23] Marcella: Okay. You'll put it the notes. 

[01:27:24] Luke: I gave the link, energyforsuccess.com/luke, but I'll also just link it in the show notes for this episode.

[01:27:29] Marcella: Awesome. Because that is part of our treatments, um, for our patients, and it's also my key, my one personal biohack that works for me every time.

[01:27:37] Luke: So are you doing the visualizations on the plane or just--

[01:27:41] Marcella: Yes. On the plane. 

[01:27:43] Luke: Oh, cool. 

[01:27:44] Marcella: Sometimes when I'm on a plane, I know that I'm tired and I want to sleep, but my body won't sleep. Um, so I'll do it, and I will feel as if I had that nap that I think I needed. So I'll do it on the plane. I'll do it in the morning if I get up, and then in the evening as well.

[01:27:57] Luke: Amazing. Yeah, well a lot of it is energetic and mental too. I know if, uh, sometimes when I'm flying, I'll listen to my new calm neuroacoustic tracks and just like, ah, just drool out for 90 minutes. And I'm like, holy shit. I land, I feel pretty. Combining that gets your mind in the right state with some NAD, it's a recipe for success. 

All right. Well, I think I covered everything I wanted to discuss with you. I want to just thank you for creating something so amazing. I want to thank you for being a medical professional that had the courage to step outside the box and to open your mind and think about ways that you can help people in a more holistic and comprehensive fashion, really, truly bringing the mind, body, spirit element into your practice and what you do. 

Um, and I just am stoked to have met you. And I'm stoked that I feel so good in my body that I can sit here like this. I mean, after a while, my foot will go to sleep, and then I move, but I'm telling you, a couple of months ago, I'd sit like this, like, ah, my hip hurts, and it just doesn't hurt, which is amazing.

[01:29:05] Marcella: And you've been through so-- such a long time with that hip. Is it okay if I share one goal about the Aqua Method of one of my visions? Um, I was thinking about what I wanted to share with you today, and that key environment that we're building with that special space and that special healing, when we do these intenses, we can do up to five clients in a week, and right now that destination is located in either DFW, Dallas Fort Worth, or in Austin.

We're going back and forth between the two, but ultimately, I think this has a huge potential for being a retreat for like-minded folks who really want to go and people that have a shared vision or a shared goal. Um, I've imagined groups of people coming and wanting to collectively heal together. So that's my long-term vision.

[01:30:00] Luke: Amazing. 

[01:30:00] Marcella: And I wanted to share that the audience so that if you have group, and you're interested, let us know. 

[01:30:06] Luke: I love that. 

[01:30:06] Marcella: Um, and then destination, getting to do it in different places would be too if we can get all the logistics-- 

[01:30:11] Luke: Oh, that's so cool. I mean, again, going back to the Dispenza thing, I don't know why I keep bringing him up, but I mean, I think a lot of the healing that takes place in his intensives is just because of the collective consciousness of that many people in a room who have the nuanced objectives, but the intention overall is the coherence and the healing. 

I think that's a great idea. I can imagine, uh, Aqua Method retreat. We have a group of 20 people that come in. Because you have a great team as we've talked about, but imagine if I'm going back a month ago, and I'm going in there, and I have five of my friends, and we're all in this together and holding each other accountable to do our exercises afterwards. 

Are you doing your intentions? Are you doing the mantras? I'm on my own, and I come home, and my wife supports me, but if I was sequestered away for a period of time and going through that with some other like-minded people, that's a really powerful idea. Yeah. So for people right now that wanted to come, uh, experience that, they would come to Austin or Dallas?

[01:31:16] Marcella: Right now, I'm in the process of opening an office in Dallas, so this particular upcoming session in August, which I don't know when this will air--

[01:31:27] Luke: Probably after August. 

[01:31:29] Marcella: Probably after august.

[01:31:30] Luke: Yeah. Usually, they're six to eight weeks after the recording. 

[01:31:33] Marcella: Okay. So the next one upcoming in 2023 will be in DFW. The one after that will be probably two months later, and it probably will be in DFW, but it might be in Austin. We haven't decided yet. So part of it has to do with the clients that we get and they're interested and where they're coming from. And there's some logistical things that I'm working on in the other office.

[01:31:52] Luke: Okay, cool. 

[01:31:53] Marcella: It'll happen.

[01:31:53] Luke: Awesome. Yeah. I'm digging your vision though. And I mean, plus you could go-- I don't know how practical it is to take your medical staff all the accoutrement of the equipment and all the things, but it'd be rad to go somewhere beautiful and--

[01:32:08] Marcella: That's the goal. 

[01:32:09] Luke: Have a retreat. Oh, let's go to Mexico. 

[01:32:14] Marcella: Yeah. That's what we need. If we have group, then we can make it happen.

[01:32:16] Luke: Then it becomes feasible to do that. Yeah, that would be rad. Because even just doing it here in Austin, I mean, like I said earlier, I had this deep emotional healing take place, even though I'm in a medical clinical office, which is not really associated with that kind of work. Usually, that's in a meditation room or something like that, but I still had that experience. But I imagine if I was able to, instead of walking out of that clinic to a parking lot in a medical, um, mini mall or whatever-- it's like a mini mall, or whatever you call that. 

[01:32:51] Marcella: Yeah. Office building.

[01:32:52] Luke: Office building. Yeah. Medical office building. If I walked out, I was like, cool, I'm going to walk down to the beach and do my mantras, it would be pretty rad.

[01:32:58] Marcella: Yeah. That would be pretty rad. That's the vision. 

[01:33:00] Luke: I'm going to hold that vision.

[01:33:02] Marcella: We're creating the future.

[01:33:03] Luke: Cool. Awesome. I love it. Thank you so much for coming by. I'm glad we got to sit down and take our time and really unpack all your work.

[01:33:09] Marcella: Me too. Thank you so much.

[01:33:09] Luke: I appreciate it. Yeah. Thank you.

[01:33:11] Marcella: Take care.

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