[00:00:01] Luke: Welcome back, dude.

[00:00:02] Ian: Thanks, man. Happy to be here.

[00:00:03] Luke: I don't know how many times you've been on. A few now.

[00:00:05] Ian: A few.

[00:00:06] Luke: And for those listening, we'll put those few in the show notes at lukestorey.com/ian2, which is spelled like Ian, pronounced Ian. lukestorey.com/ian2. There's been a bunch of them-- number 300, 350, 465, 461. And we just did another one with Philip.

[00:00:22] Ian: Shazam, man. So this is number six?

[00:00:24] Luke: Something like that. Yeah.

[00:00:27] Ian: It's like the five timers club on SNL. I should get a smoking jacket or something.

[00:00:31] Luke: There should be some consolation prize of some sort.

[00:00:34] Ian: Definitely like a Luke Storey insignia or something.

[00:00:36] Luke: But I think, I don't know, there's some people that come on and I feel like we nail the essence of them and their wisdom in one shot. And it's like just a one magical moment and that's enough for everyone. Maybe not for them, but for me. For many of them, they're like, never again.

[00:00:56] Ian: I'll keep practicing until I nail it.

[00:00:58] Luke: Yeah, exactly. But I don't know. There's you and John Lieurance and a few people that will hit me up. You're like, hey, I'm going to be there with Phillip. You want to do another one? It's like an instantaneous yes because I know I'm never going to get to the bottom of the well of your--

[00:01:12] Ian: Oh, that's awesome, man. Thanks.

[00:01:14] Luke: Intellect and your heart, and you just have so much knowledge to share.

[00:01:19] Ian: This is fun, and all the stuff you're doing. I said this off camera, but I totally support everything you're doing. And getting the information out to people and with integrity, showing them things to look at and do is rare and it's good. People need that. They need a voice that they can hear and trust.

[00:01:38] Luke: Yeah, I appreciate it.

[00:01:40] Ian: For sure.

[00:01:40] Luke: I know that my life has been absolutely transformed by the books I've read, the lectures and conferences I've attended, but probably more than anything is audio programs. Listening to thousands of hours of David Hawkins and Ram Dass and podcasts with health experts and scientists and physicists and biologists and all of these people in different areas of study, I feel like that's given me a PhD in life. Not to mention hosting the show for eight years and talking to people like you and be able to ask every weird little nuanced question I've ever wanted to ask someone.

[00:02:21] Ian: Yeah. I remember when we first met, I asked you about why you've done this and you were like, are you kidding? This is the best gig ever. I get to talk to the coolest people who are the top experts in their field in all of the world. Yeah, that's pretty cool. As gigs go, that's a really good one.

[00:02:36] And in the

[00:02:37] Luke: Yeah. And in the beginning, actually, I ran into this guy, Poranguí yesterday, a really great musician, and he's going to come on the show on Saturday. And he's like, oh, what's it like to do a podcast? Why have you been doing it for eight years? And I said, well, there's no way I could get the people that I have conversations with to sit down and give me a private coaching session for two hours.

[00:02:58] You know what I mean? It's like, of course, I'm thinking about the audience, but I really like to learn all this stuff. So if I sit down with you or Joe Dispenza, I'm like, I might be able to get a conversation with you for free, but not someone that is highly sought after. Gabor Mate or different people I've talked to, they don't have a thing on their website where you can sign up for a private two-hour talk.

[00:03:20] Ian: No, yeah, I'm a glutton for punishment, and I legitimately still do this. It takes me a little while, but I tell everybody, I'm still accessible. That's the reason I'm here is to try and help. So reach out. I'm on social media. It might take a little while because there's a long list of people that hit me up with biological issues and problems. They can't get through or this or that. And I 100% get back to every single person.

[00:03:45] Takes a little while sometimes because there is a litany of people. But that's the thing, is I just view it as like, I have a very oddball and specific skillset, and I feel like we're all gifted with certain tools. And so my attributes are in the way of being able to biologically suss things out.

[00:04:03] And as you say, like a pattern recognitionist sees things that other people aren't necessarily seeing. So if I needed help, I would hope that if somebody else out there had the capacity to do that, they would lend the helping hand. So it's just literally scratching my own itch.

[00:04:22] You treat other people the way you want to be treated. And I keep beating this drum because I really believe it, but it was said a long time ago, and I think it's true. Be the change you want to see in the world. I wish people reached out and helped everybody out more. Surprisingly, a lot of people do. if I called you and said I needed something, I have no doubt that you would do it, and I would do the same likewise.

[00:04:42] My grandfather said this when I was a kid and I wish I had really caught the import of some of the things he told me when I was little because I just wasn't at that point. But he said, be good and do good. The rest will take care of itself. It's very simple, but it's as true today as it was 40 years ago.

[00:05:01] Luke: Sometimes the most profound truths are so simple on their face that it's difficult to even apply them. Because they just pass you by. Something like that can sound very trite, but if you actually take that data and apply it to your life, you have a fucking amazing life.

[00:05:24] Ian: I know, man. It's what we were joking about earlier. In this one, one of my friends, Bill and I were talking about this earlier in the week, is that Ramana Maharshi thing, like, how do you treat other people? There are no other people. That's so fucking poignant. If you realize that you're no different than anyone else at the most fundamental level, just do what you can.

[00:05:46] The rising tide raises all vessels. Help everybody go up a little bit. And there is a surprising amount of that in the world. If you focus on the negativity, the negativity grows. If you focus on the positivity and the benefit, that grows too. It's basic physics. Wherever you place your energy, that system is going to propagate.

[00:06:04] It's photoelectric effect applied to consciousness. You point energy at something, that something expands. It hops out into the next level. I was having a conversation with my dad earlier in the week because he is sometimes perhaps not the most optimistic of sorts, and I would say maybe more like the harbinger of doom, like, ah, I just won the lottery. The taxes. It's like, no matter what it is.

[00:06:28] And he knows that we joke about it because he has a tendency to do that, but I said, look, pop, take 60 seconds just for me. Write out a list of 10 things that you see that are beneficial in the world. I don't care what they are. 10 things that are beautiful, whether it's a tree, a rose, a cloud, doesn't matter.

[00:06:46] Just focus on the positivity because we're lambasted with so much negativity all of the time that I think the only way to really grapple with that is to not necessarily try and fight it, but to just look in the direction of the positivity. Jesus didn't say like, go forth and beat the hell out of people who were doing evil. He was like, just turn away from evil.

[00:07:08] Same thing with Buddha, Krishna, all the guys that really got it. They're not embracing negativity and clashing with it. They're just turning away from it and focusing on the positivity. And when you do that, positivity grows.

[00:07:21] Luke: See, if I followed that, my Telegram would be dead. For those of you that want focus on that negativity in the world, I invite you to go to lukestorey.com/telegram. I know what you're speaking to is really important and it's so true, and honestly, I'll be real, it's something I struggle with.

[00:07:42] Ian: It's something that anybody who is aware struggles with.

[00:07:46] Luke: Part of it is, I think, because a life left unexamined is a wasted life, so I look at myself and my motives and try and check my behavior and habits and refine my character and all of that as I go. And one characteristic I have in a very pronounced way is I just want to know the truth about the nature of reality. And it's one of my highest values.

[00:08:10] Even if the truth that I find about myself, especially, and the world out there, is disturbing, it's in my nature. I just want to know, even if it hurts. Give me the bad news. I can take it kind of thing. And I just want to understand the way things work. And so sometimes that leads me down paths that are really disturbing.

[00:08:32] You start looking at chemtrails and harp and these biological weapons that are now in the vast majority of people on earth. And there's some really dark stuff out there, and I feel like, a, I want to know just out of curiosity and just my-- it's just fascinating to watch the human experience and all the deviations on both sides of the polarity of this duality in which we live.

[00:08:58] It's just like, whoa, God, people are capable of this level of evil? That's fascinating, a. B, I want to brace myself and be aware of what dangers to avoid in the world. And I also think it's important for some of us to sound the alarm for people like, hey, did you know that cereal you're feeding your kid is full of glyphosate? Could be a problem.

[00:09:18] So it's like I want to know truth. I want to share that truth, but there's also the limbic brain that is addicted to problems and addicted to drama and is the guy who's sitting there scrolling these really dark Telegram feeds, I'm speaking about myself, looking for all the bad news and evil in the world.

[00:09:40] Ian: Yeah. Or you could just embrace it. I'm going to launch a whole line of cereals called glypho crunch.

[00:09:46] Luke: Yeah, exactly.

[00:09:48] Ian: Three times the glyphosate in every bite.

[00:09:50] Luke: Exactly, yeah. And you will grow no weeds inside your gut. Or anything else. So yeah, it's something I struggle with a bit, to be honest. And in one of my resolutions this year was to loosen my grip on the negativity in the world and the bad news and focus more on envisioning and manifesting the kind of life and the kind of world that I want. So thank you for that reminder.

[00:10:15] Ian: Yeah. I struggle with it too. I think anybody who's reasonably aware will see things that I think are arguably designed to be jarring to us because people want websites and things to be sticky. Because if nobody shows up on social media, it's no longer social. And if you don't play into whatever the trend is at that particular moment that tries to absorb your intent, your focus, your entire being, then they lose out on ad revenue.

[00:10:45] And that's really what drives a lot of this. So for me, yeah, I'm aware. So it is a struggle I think for anybody because you care about other people and you don't want to see them running very much into a giant meat grinder, which is, unfortunately, on a kind of a global scale, what has been happening to a lot of people. But my take is like yours was. I'm just trying to pull back and focus on what I can focus on and change that.

[00:11:15] I was talking to one of my kids last week, and he was saying that he's on his own spiritual path. And he's working on meditating and doing those sorts of things, which I think that's fantastic. I really applaud, especially at his age that he's doing that.

[00:11:31] But he thought, oh, maybe I should go out and try and do more social things outside and impact things societally. And I said, actually, I think just the opposite. Fundamentally, stabilizing your own awareness and your consciousness in a space of positivity is the most impactful thing you can do.

[00:11:50] In TM, that's the reason cosmic consciousness is cosmic. Because it's not just a cosmic event. It's of a select, celestial order of magnitude. The jump when your consciousness elevates to the point where it actually hits stability and there's no longer shakable, a lot of things change.

[00:12:11] You like listening to Hawkins. Most everybody here has probably heard him, but part of the reason for that is once you move over that threshold where you go beyond 600, just like light becomes coherent to make a laser, your voice becomes coherent when you speak. And so people are drawn to listen to it because there's a certain amount of integrity and focus and force behind it that they won't experience other places.

[00:12:34] They might just recognize it as, oh, this is comfortable. I want to listen to this. I enjoy this. But there's a different intensity behind it. And you've heard me say this. It's the difference between a light bulb and a laser, is one is incoherent and flattering around in different directions, and you can warm a hot dog.

[00:12:51] The other is entirely coherent and focused with one point of intent and it will punch a hole through steel. Same number of emissive photons, but the outcome is entirely different, and that's completely within our control. If you elevate your own consciousness, then you're able to do all of these other sorts of things with a fair degree of ease that other people would find completely intractable and it's because you've increased the amplitude of what you are as a waveform

[00:13:19] Luke: That's beautiful. Tell that to all the people out there with the protest signs hating the others that are doing it wrong.

[00:13:27] Ian: Yeah, man. It's like people worry about what color the shark is wearing lately. Like, does the shark have a blue bib on or a red bib? It doesn't matter. You're in a pool with a shark. It's going to eat you. This divisiveness takes people away from focusing on the issues at hand, which there's a larger classicist thing that's happening where if people really understood the separation between the haves and the have nots and the old school proletariat bourgeoisie separation, I think they would be far less inclined to fight amongst one another and far more inclined to say the system is obviously broken.

[00:14:00] But the system is broken no different than the system has been for probably the past 10,000 years. It's basically all governmental systems are outcroppings of mercantile feudalism. The people who control the flow of goods and money control the planet. That's not changed. You know what I mean? Whether they're kings or merchants, that's the same gig we've been playing by.

[00:14:19] Luke: 100%. There's a book that my friend Alec Zeck turned me onto maybe a year ago. It's called The Most Dangerous Superstition by Larken Rose, who, in talks with, he's going to do the show. He just lives in Arizona, and I don't like doing remote interviews. He's got a film out called Mr. Jones Plantation, by the way.

[00:14:40] It's a dramatic film, but it's based on reality. But the whole premise of the book is that no matter what type of government you have, if you look at the historical record, because of the issues that you just outlined so eloquently, ultimately that government, no matter what stripe it is, blue, red, whatever, is going to start to devour people, and it's like the premise of it essentially is that what leads us astray as a species is this superstitious belief that one human being or class of human being has an inherent right to rule over, control, exploit, subjugate another.

[00:15:26] And I read that book or listened to it and it was like, oh shit, that's right. We're all under this hypnosis that a royal bloodline or a politician or the head of a corporation or anyone is somehow special and therefore has the writer can be voted into the right of controlling the destiny and outcome and livelihood and energy output of another person. It's like, why do we even believe that? Why do we outsource our power in that way?

[00:15:59] Ian: I think outsourcing our power is the exact answer to that question, is people want to believe that the answer is outside of themselves. I've never personally seen something where the answer wasn't inherent to the question and where the answer of anything I had been trying to figure out wasn't internal, period.

[00:16:19] All the external battles, whether it's your livelihood or anything like that, those external things are irrelevant. And people will argue that point, and I suppose you, you can in a sense, but in my own experience, everything is internal. Once you squelch the internal strife, the external stuff just falls away.

[00:16:41] Things line up. Again, I think it's that coherence because from a fundamental point of basis, just looking at the sheer physics of it. You as Luke Storey are an integrity of vibrations. You are a pattern that's oscillating in a certain very, very complicated way.

[00:16:59] And my particular belief is that your consciousness has manifested those aggregate vibrations around you to then coalesce and become things that are tangible and meaty, so we can walk around in the physical form that we do. But really, even things like histamine reactions or sickness or whatever, all that stuff, it's a physical manifestation of something that's amiss internally.

[00:17:22] And again, I'm sure I will catch a lot of flack for saying that, but that's actually my experience because I've seen things that with the current understanding wouldn't be believable, like eliminating people's histamine reactions in real time. Very easily done, because you simply change the vibrations around them, then their own genetics express more fully and they have more integrity.

[00:17:43] Because basically, you've taken the vibratory field that is the basis of that person, you amp up the amplitude of that signal, and so it's not as easily corrupted. So it's a little bitty signal next to a very large broadcasting transmission tower. So you've got this mega Watts of radio at one frequency and then a little bitty, bitty signal.

[00:18:04] That little signal is not going to do a damn thing to the giant megawatt tower. And so if you become that megawatt tower by virtue of constantly refining your own internal process, you can hold up the integrity with everything else. There is no issue. You can't be damaged in the same way that other people can be damaged.

[00:18:21] Whether it's emotionally, physically, intellectually, it just makes you have a degree of imperviousness that isn't common, but it's completely plausible and doable for everybody. You just have to work for it and earnestly want it.

[00:18:37] Luke: And also the phenomenon of someone who has that level of coherence, having an impact on the living organisms around them who aren't even aware that it's happening and maybe aren't incentivized to do that work on themselves and develop that own coherence, but it's that entrainment. When you walk in, I don't know, for me, I think in the beginning it would be 12-step groups.

[00:19:07] It's a great example of that, that David Hawkins talked about a lot. It's you take someone, this vagrant off the streets with dreadlocks and urine-stained clothing and makes their living diving in trash cans and stealing from people or something and are afflicted with probably unhealed trauma and alcoholism or drug addiction. Throw them in a consciousness field with higher coherence than they have on their own, literally just from being in the room and in the field of the unconditional love of those groups, for example, the person's instantly transformed.

[00:19:43] Ian: Yeah.

[00:19:44] Luke: And become a upstanding member of society, get back in touch with their kids, get a job, whatever. It's like, well, how did that happen? It's some kind of voodoo? No, it's the entrainment of consciousness.

[00:19:57] Ian: Yeah.

[00:19:57] Luke: And then there's, of course, higher levels of that. You might go, I don't know, to a beautiful cathedral. Or for me, I had a lot of that happen from going to kundalini yoga classes and workshops where it's like I'd walk in in one state, do some mudras and sing some mantra and move my body around in certain ways and walk out being a completely different person.

[00:20:20] Ian: Yeah. Over the mountains. It's peaceful. Yeah.

[00:20:25] Luke: Right. I find that so interesting, and it speaks to what you were saying earlier about wanting to have an impact on the world because you're a high empathy, caring person. And it seems like to affect change, you need to go out into the world and start changing things and wrestling into your vision of what you think it should be.

[00:20:42] Meanwhile, if you just forgave your parents, call your mom, you know what I mean? Few of us want to do the actual, the meaningful work because it is a little more uncomfortable. Because you have to go within and look at your shadowy parts and make those uncomfortable phone calls or have those conversations, do that forgiveness that your ego doesn't want to do.

[00:21:08] Ian: Yeah.

[00:21:09] Luke: Admit you were wrong, make amends to people you've harmed. The inner work and the work in your immediate relationships to me has been the most impactful. And I think as a result, I don't think, I know as a result has absolutely made me a net positive to humanity. To what degree, I don't know.

[00:21:31] But I know that as someone who lived from a more rapacious experience of life where I was taking energy from people and from the world all the time that I'm a person now who does more giving of positive energy and has a positive impact. But it's not because I'm trying to do that just because I'm working on myself and I'm healing and there's a certain level of coherence, plenty more to go, but there has been progress where--

[00:21:54] Ian: That's hard, though. It's hard to turn in and actually do that. And God bless anybody who really goes full bore because of the point at which things really kick in and you start to remember a lot of stuff. People always wonder like, oh, what did I do in a past life? Who was I?

[00:22:07] You probably don't want to know because odds are at some point you were a complete asshole. But at the point at which I think you actually start remembering that stuff and working through it, you've reached a space where you realize like yeah, pretty much everybody does that kind of stuff.

[00:22:24] It's cool. It's a cycle. Love, acceptance, change, love. Love, acceptance, change, love over and over and over because that's really like the substrate of everything that's going on, is you have to be, in my opinion, grounded out in the space of love because that's been my experience of what this entire place is based on, the one frequency that is the root for everything in manifest creation in this particular universe is love, which sounds, super woowoo, especially coming from a scientist.

[00:22:57] I will do things, and I do things routinely. I was doing a podcast a couple of weeks ago and before the show I was talking about how things were entangled and how you can affect change on other things. And the only reason I'm comfortable talking about it is because I can do it at the drop of a hat every time.

[00:23:13] So I did the thing with the coffee where I just had them put two cups of coffee in front of themselves and they were on Milwaukee or somewhere. And I said, which one do you want changed? And change the flavor of that particular thing because it's simply a vibratory function.

[00:23:28] And the idea that you're not connected to everyone and everything is not accurate. It's a very nice fallacy that people perpetrate on themselves. But the reality is, everything is entangled. Everything is connected, and everything is entangled. It's holographic. It's that Michael Talbot book, The Holographic Universe.

[00:23:49] There's a lot of truth to that. Every component contains the information of every other component. And when you shine a lot of energy through, say a piece of a hologram, you can really clearly see what else is going on. A lot of people, I think, don't really think about that, but if you run that analogy thoroughly through, a holographic plate that everybody's seen that has an image on it, when you shatter that, no matter how small the piece is, down to the single smallest tetrahedral molecule of silicon dioxide, you take one molecule and you shine a light through it, it recreates all of the information for the entire image.

[00:24:25] And if you shine a laser through it, which is entirely coherent, you can actually create such a detailed image that you can actually get photonic scale resolution. You can see where the electrons are. It's that precise. And we tell ourselves like, oh, it's them. It's us. Truly, that's just bullshit.

[00:24:45] But it's the nice thing that we allow ourselves to work through and play. But at a certain point, you've got to wake up and make a call or like, are you going to do something and stay and help? Or are you going to just check out?

[00:24:58] And I think that's why a lot of people, when they go through the process of evolving themselves, a lot of them probably end up in caves by themselves for a while. And then a lot of them just die because once you wake up and realize there are no animals harmed in the making of this film, it's like, peace out, bitches.

[00:25:16] Luke: Totally.

[00:25:17] Ian: You bounce. But then there's the other people who are the equivalent of bleeding heart liberals who are like, wow, that really sucked. That was hard. I think I'm just going to stick it out and try and help. And those are the guys that-- I always owe a debt of gratitude to Hawkins because he was the thing that cracked the egg of me open. And that was a profound experience. I'm sure it would have happened at some point anyway, but that was a trigger for me.

[00:25:43] And it really made an impactful difference. And also I think helped me get to a point where I was like, okay, I want to help people. I really want to help people. What do I have to do to be able to do that? And then start aligning my life in such a way that I can actually elicit the changes that I want to do.

[00:25:58] And on a larger scale, because at a certain point, it's nice to do things on a microcosmic scale, but if you want to really make big changes, because like you said, there are a lot of forces in the world that are not so warm and fuzzy that are trying to make those changes and they don't care who gets destroyed in the process, and that's fine. But on the other side, you need a counterbalance.

[00:26:21] So when the forces that are pulling people apart and being divisive, you need something that's being cohesive and trying to hold it together. And I do actually think there's a necessary interplay there. If you were all good, you'd want to have something that was a little dark, because you need the dynamic interplay. Otherwise, people don't grow. So it's not really at the grand scale so horrible because you need that dynamism. Otherwise, in a frictionless environment, you don't move much.

[00:26:50] Luke: I love that, dude. Yesterday I did a podcast with a musician who goes by East Forest and he makes music for psychedelic experiences. And some of them are made with recordings of Ram Dass speaking and just [Inaudible] Ram Dass poetic. And we were talking about--

[00:27:13] Ian: Coolest voice.

[00:27:14] Luke: Yeah. The best, dude. Even after his stroke, you'd think like, oh man, I think it took him a while to learn how to speak, but then he became very economic with his words. It's like you're hanging on every word because they really count, because he couldn't get that many out. But anyway, we were talking about just the nature of reality and duality and teasing apart ideas. And so many things in this realm that I talk about are just directly lifted from David Hawkins, just ideas that I've played with.

[00:27:46] But one of the most profound that we were talking about to, to your point, is how Hawkins would talk about people that find fault with the nature of the world and like, why does evil exist? And it's like the atheist or agnostic argument. There's no God because there's war, because there's famine, because there's cancer, etc.

[00:28:10] And how Hawkins would talk about the idea that, if the purpose of us incarnating here in these bodies that seem separate from everything, even though we know they're not on a quantum level, as you described, there is no other, but we have the experience of other because we need the individuality in order to progress consciousness moving forward.

[00:28:32] But how Hawkins would talk about, that the world doesn't need to change. Look at the war. Look at the famine. Look at the rape. Look at the murder. How can you reconcile that that's okay? And the only way I've been able to reconcile it is from listening to people like Hawkins when he said, if the purpose of us coming here is the evolution of consciousness, let's just lay that out there as the best possible option, the thing that makes the most sense, because otherwise what's the point? Then the world exactly as it is with all of its faults is perfect for that.

[00:29:06] Ian: Can you imagine what a movie would be like if you did it the other way where there was nothing bad? It would be like, so I watched this TV show where people just sat down eating yogurt.

[00:29:20] Luke: Right.

[00:29:21] Ian: Probably wouldn't get the best ratings, right? Having a bland tasteless existence at a very boring white table with no scenery. This is way cooler.

[00:29:33] Luke: Yeah. It's like if the goal is to reach a higher elevation, there needs to be the bottom of the mountain.

[00:29:42] Ian: Yeah.

[00:29:42] Luke: Otherwise, how do you get to the top if it's all top of the mountain everywhere universally and everyone's there all the time? Then what is there to do?

[00:29:50] Ian: Yeah. I'm a big fan of the idea that God is not an idiot, that the universe isn't just foolish. It's very nice in how it cordons things off. People who have the capacity to understand things are there because they have developed that capacity over time. People who have special attributes and abilities, they have those because they're not going to do something with it that's inherently wrong.

[00:30:15] You don't give toddlers pistols. You very judiciously let people go through a test, and once they've moved past a point and they can demonstrably be trusted with that knowledge and with those capacities, then you let them have it. That's why I don't get really racked out about people.

[00:30:34] There was a fellow I knew who was a big-time spiritual teacher guy who was doing some pretty nefarious stuff. And I sent him a nice note about it because I didn't get terribly racked out about it. There are just certain things you don't do. There's a sanctity to having students.

[00:30:51] If you have students that you've taken under your wing, there's a certain covenant that's formed by the relationship of universe, teacher, student. It's sacrosanct. You don't fuck with that. You have a certain deference to that with respect that you just deal with a certain way.

[00:31:09] But, again, I'm not going to get racked out about it, because even that guy, he's a student in his own right. His consciousness is evolving. It's requisite that he fail. Most people fail tests the first time. That's just how this place is built. That's cool. Just keep doing it.

[00:31:28] Luke: Yeah. That explains the fallen guru syndrome.

[00:31:29] Ian: All the time. They'll get it. It's just [Inaudible] life.

[00:31:32] Luke: It's actually the exception if someone has, say, spiritual gifts and insights and the magical powers of being able to do siddhis and stuff like that, producing vibhuti or bilocating or--

[00:31:49] Ian: And there are a lot of people like that.

[00:31:50] Luke: Yeah. There's many people that have those gifts. And I think it's the exception when they aren't corrupted by the temptations along the way through that ascension into higher levels of consciousness. The ego is also still present. They're waiting in the wings going, ha ha ha. Now we're having fame and money and attention and adulation from followers, and those followers, like Ram Dass would talk about how people would fall in love with him just because he's radiating love. He's not radiating it for that purpose, but they just feel the energy of love and they attribute it to the persona and attach meaning to that and ostensibly fall in love with him.

[00:32:31] Ian: Yeah, the ascription of form.

[00:32:32] Luke: Right. Because he had integrity, I assume. There's been no me-too moments for Ram Dass, for example.

[00:32:38] Ian: I think, actually, if I might, one of the things that probably isn't publicly talked about there is, I bet there's a big correlation between people who have already hit the point of enlightenment, who have come back, and they might throw the scales there in terms of the way that's perceived.

[00:32:57] So they've already done it once and then they died and then they came back to help again. And those guys are going to probably go through the test pretty easily because they've already done it. And that's going to skew it. Like, oh, it's such an exception. Yeah, well, because they passed last time. So they're most likely going to pass this time. But people don't talk about that because it's not real cool to just go blabbing about that.

[00:33:21] Luke: Maybe it's an exception and a rarity that someone does ascend to higher levels of consciousness and spiritual power and understanding and is uncorruptible because the majority of them don't come back.

[00:33:32] Ian: Right.

[00:33:33] Luke: You hit a certain level and you're like, okay, earth school's done. I'm going to go off to the celestial realms and be a guardian angel in the clouds for the people that are still here or whatever.

[00:33:41] Ian: Yeah. You're just chill out and modulate energy as it flows through this place and try and have a big spin on what happens. And then there are those crazy people who are like, I'm going to jump back in. Look, mom, no hands.

[00:33:55] Luke: I used to think that I was going to be one of those people when I hit that point, and more and more, I'm like, ah, probably good. I'm going to keep climbing. I'm going to keep ascending in my own little way and the grace of God is going to help me to do so. But I don't know, man. The earth school, it's a bitch here, man.

[00:34:14] Ian: Yeah. This place is hard.

[00:34:16] Luke: It's no joke.

[00:34:17] Ian: No, it's not. But that's the beauty of it, is it is no joke, and it's every bit totally real, and that's your perception. And that is the gift and the curse simultaneously. The beauty of this place is you 100% buy in. When you take the contract to rock back in, you're clubbed on the head. You don't remember anything, with rare exceptions, and you have to work your way through the puzzle again, and you believe it. It's every bit is real.

[00:34:44] Luke: Yeah. The spiritual amnesia, the incarnation.

[00:34:47] Ian: Lesha-Vidya.

[00:34:49] Luke: Yeah. I'm writing a book. I don't know if I told you that. And the essence of the book is about loneliness. And in one part of the book, the meta-analysis is that loneliness is just due to our lack of awareness of the unicity of consciousness and of humanity, that there is no other, that kind of thing.

[00:35:10] So if you gain that awareness, you can't be lonely because you're not you. You're everyone all the time. But along those lines it's difficult because of that amnesia. Every time we're born again-- I made a shirt, lukestoreymerch.com, by the way. You can get it. And it says born again and again, and again, and again, and again, and again, and again, ad infinitum.

[00:35:39] Ian: That's hilarious.

[00:35:40] Luke: And it's like every time we're up there in the ethers, wherever we are as a soul, and we're like, ooh, this person just met this person, and then we're keeping tabs on them. This is just my imagination. I don't know if that works. And then we're like, ooh, cool. They're falling in love.

[00:35:56] This looks good. They have the perfect karmic blueprint for what I might need to come back in for another incarnation. Then they have sex and you're like, boom, sperm just hit the egg. However long that takes, give it a couple of days, and I'm jumping in there.

[00:36:13] And when you do that, the moment gestation begins, it seems like you get this spiritual amnesia and you have no goddamn idea that you were here many times before. And it makes sense because we can't even hold this lifetime. It's too much.

[00:36:32] Ian: Yeah.

[00:36:32] Luke: So it's like very few of us are able to hold the multitudes of lifetimes and contextualize those into our experience in this one because it's just too much. Your brain can't even handle all that.

[00:36:44] Ian: Yeah, I would say that hypothetically, to hit the first stage, the point at which your consciousness breaks over, you have to purge all of the stresses that you've amassed this lifetime and you have to work through them, truly work through them, which is brutal. Imagine the worst thing you've ever had, like the worst day you've ever had, the worst year, whatever. You have to work through that.

[00:37:07] So that's the first part. But then to hit the second stage and sublimate up to that point, you have to work through all of them. And so the idea of actually going back and reliving all of the stresses you've ever had from any lifetime and crushing through all, probably 20 something of those to process that out, that's a bitch.

[00:37:28] But that's what's required. Because then when you pass that point, then you're able to do different things and contribute in a different way. And I think also it probably would allow you to check your own ego, because you'd come back and build that construct again so you could still relate to people.

[00:37:46] But you would no longer have the holier than thou thing because you'd realize, wow, yeah, there were a couple of times where I was just, yeah, real, not so good. And it wouldn't be something that would be a second perspective. You would actually have lived it. And so you would really know that, yeah, you could be a complete asshole sometimes. You will have murdered people. You will have been murdered. You will have raped people. You have been as horrible a creature as you can possibly imagine, but that's the path.

[00:38:15] And so in the process of seeing something that, from your own perspective, you value and cherish, your own persona, and realizing, oh my God, this soul did all of these things. Wow, that's pretty screwed up, but still a good soul. And then it shifts that juxtaposition where you realize like, oh, well, I guess everybody else is going through the same thing.

[00:38:36] And then it makes it a whole lot easier to not be so judgmental about something because you know firsthand that all the people who were doing those, as you said, rapacious sort of things where they're pulling more than they're providing, okay. It's a cycle that's going to come around eventually.

[00:38:55] Hopefully they'll hit a point where they're contributing far more than they're taking. And in the meantime, what do you do? Do you hate them? No, not at all. You have been that person. Just love them. Provide energy because what else are you going to do?

[00:39:11] Luke: It's a beautiful perspective, and that that has been part of my reconciliation with experiences in my life in which I was legitimately victimized, which have been very few. Most of the things that I used to feel victimized about, upon honest inspection, have been situations that I put myself in based on my own selfishness or stupidity.

[00:39:38] But there were, like being abused as a kid. There were a couple things that have happened in my life that have been extremely detrimental and hurtful for which I had zero responsibility in this lifetime. And so reconciling that is challenging because it's like, I was a little kid. I was innocent.

[00:39:54] I did nothing to invite the abuse, for example. But to the thread we're on here, I have found reconciliation through the understanding that, and this sounds like victim shaming, so forgive me anyone who's been abused and doesn't share this perspective. This is my own journey. I'm pretty certain that the things that were done to me, I had done before and that there was a karmic debt left to be paid. And if I view it that way, and again, this is going to be a stretch for some people--

[00:40:30] Ian: It's going to piss a lot of people off.

[00:40:31] Luke: This is just my own understanding, man. You got to figure your own shit out. And if I'm looking back on things that happen, and it could be a rationalization or a justification or a way for me just to ease the trauma response, but I don't think it's that because I've worked on this a lot for many years and I really feel like I had committed some level of atrocity in prior lifetimes and that when I came in this time, there was a debit, there was a ledger that needed to be balanced.

[00:41:01] And from that perspective, I can find a much deeper level of forgiveness for the perpetrators. Because it's all part of this karmic cycle, and they played a role in my awakening, and in my undoing of that karma. And the only proof I have of that, I think, is that I used to steal constantly my whole life. I was just a complete kleptomaniac because of my trauma and just whatever.

[00:41:32] When I got sober, obviously I stopped stealing. Actually, no, I didn't. That's not even true. That's not even true. I changed the rules for who I was willing to steal from. So I'll have to correct that. And I made amends for the things that I stole after that. But I stopped breaking into houses and just doing super gnarly shit. And when I got sober, there was a period of time, a few years where I got shit stolen from me constantly. Car get broken into all the time, just people stealing my stuff.

[00:42:05] Ian: That's awesome. Karmic balancing.

[00:42:07] Luke: Yeah, totally dude. And then at a certain point, and I was careless because I just thought I'm a good person. Why would anyone break into my car? I don't need to lock it. Or I leave shit on the seat or whatever. Then at a certain point it stopped happening and I wasn't being any more thoughtful about securing my stuff or watching it. There was no like higher level of concern. Or care, and then it just stopped happening.

[00:42:30] And I thought, huh, this is interesting. After a couple of years of no one stealing my shit, no one trying to fight me, just no attacks of any kind coming my way, I thought the only way to explain this, because I'm still living in Los Angeles, still in the same neighborhood, still parking my car wherever, my house is just as easy to break into as it ever was. And I thought I must have finally produced enough goodwill in the world that I nullified or neutralized that karma and now I don't have to have things stolen from me because the ledger is balanced.

[00:43:06] Ian: Yeah, I think there is a beautiful degree of complexity to it, but I subscribe to the idea that there is an overarching balance in the universe. And when you work through those things-- you have issues because you want to work through them. You want to become smarter, you study.

[00:43:25] You want to become stronger, you push your body physically. That's what's requisite. And I don't think it's any different with the growth and evolution of your own consciousness. You go through strife. And I'm sure you did just balance it out. Honestly, sometimes when people are operating on karma cash, they'll do something and then they'll get slammed immediately.

[00:43:46] That's great. That means you're in a great spot. When it's not karma credit where it's going to be a lifetime or two lifetimes before you reap that-- and I think that's what throws people off, is you reap what you sow. Yeah, given. But you sow a seed and you reap something that looks entirely different. What obfuscates that for people? The passage of time.

[00:44:07] If the passage of time is a season, it's really easy to say oh you reap what you sow. Yeah, but if the passage of time is, let's say, 100 years or 200 years, you're not going to have any experience of that because time has occluded that. Your soul recognizes it, but your awareness at that given moment is completely oblivious because it doesn't see what was actually sewn at that point.

[00:44:29] Luckily, universe seems to be really good at keeping tabs of that and working that stuff out. To me, that's a beautiful system because you do something beneficial, you get it back many fold. You do something detrimental, you get it back point for point, which is--

[00:44:46] Luke: Pretty fair.

[00:44:47] Ian: Dude, it's the most fucking amazing asymmetrical balance. It's beautiful. If you do something detrimental, point for point. You do something beneficial, tenfold. Cool. If that were an investing setup, everybody in their right mind would do that. It's a great gig.

[00:45:05] Luke: Have you ever had any conscious awareness of your past lives?

[00:45:09] Ian: Yes.

[00:45:09] Luke: You have?

[00:45:10] Ian: Yes.

[00:45:11] Luke: Tell us more.

[00:45:12] Ian: I would rather not.

[00:45:13] Luke: Okay.

[00:45:13] Ian: Yeah, it all came crashing back. And that's the thing, is I don't expect that anybody--when it's meant to happen, it happens. And you can't bypass it despite what you'd like to. There are certain points along the path of trying to evolve your own consciousness when it actually kicks in and you start moving through it. It's brutal.

[00:45:38] You can't even describe the degree of severity and pain. It's brutal. I think that's why most people don't talk about it. Because if you told everybody just how truly brutal it was and how real it has to get and how excoriating it is, personally, because you do, you end up stripping away your entire persona.

[00:46:05] You lose that. You end up rebuilding it so you can reintegrate with society, or you just dip and check out. But in the process of doing that and having it all stripped away, it's super brutal. If most people knew just how hard they'd be like, yeah, I think I'm going to take the buddy Jesus path. Fuck this going for enlightenment thing.

[00:46:23] I'm going to go for salvation and check out the door because it's a whole lot easier. The onus is no longer on you. You have somebody else doing a lot of the lifting for you. You're trying to end up at an entirely different point. If you're trying to elevate your own consciousness and your own awareness, you've basically signed up to go on a very difficult path that is going to take many, many lifetimes at the point at which it kicks in and you start actually hitting those spots where it locks in and doesn't regress. It's brutal.

[00:46:53] And the first one is bad. The second one is hard. The third one is literally the worst thing you can imagine. No matter what bit of darkness is within yourself, it will get blown up in a way that you could not even begin to fathom so that you have your own temptation and you have to move through it. And the funny part is that's the path that as far as I'm aware, everybody went through to get to the other side of that. Nobody gets out unscathed. It's brutal.

[00:47:26] Luke: I think that's the funny thing about the spiritual path. Something about which many people I think are confused and rudely awakened is that the spiritual path is the hardest path.

[00:47:41] Ian: It's brutal.

[00:47:43] Luke: Drinking beer, watching football, punching the clock at 9-5 for a few lifetimes, and God knows I've probably squandered a lot of lifetimes doing some version of a bread and circus. But I think many people, and this is, I think, true for me in the beginning thinking, ooh, spirituality. I start to meditate, do a little yoga, read some spiritual books. It's the myth of love and light. The spiritual path is the path of inner peace and quietude of mind and calmness and compassion and all those wonderful parts of the path.

[00:48:18] But in my experience, in order to get to those states and to have that state become more pervasive, it requires periods that you described that are freaking brutal. Dante's fucking inferno, man. It's just like, I don't know if I would have signed up for this if I knew it could be so hard to wake up.

[00:48:42] Ian: Yeah, I think that's designed to be.

[00:48:46] Luke: I mean, I would. I wouldn't take anything back, but it's just like, man, even all the progress that I've made, which is so much from where I started, there's periods that are really difficult.

[00:48:57] Ian: Yeah. It's funny because I'm a very pacifistic person by nature, but one of the big things for me was I literally ended up in a setting where I was contemplating murdering someone, which sounds horrible. But that was the temptation. And it was seemingly something that would have been entirely justified given the circumstance and all this kind of stuff.

[00:49:21] But that's the test. And what's preposterous is looking back and looking at how many things had to line up to be able to elicit the kind of doubt and internal questioning to even hit that in me was amazing. It was the most intricate billiard ball shot in the universe with everything conspiring to line up this one scenario at this one particular moment to be this massive checkpoint. We're like, you go this way, you move down an entirely different path.

[00:49:58] You go this way, you go through the gates, and you go to an entirely different thing. But what was bizarre is just the degree of, internally, how much I thought, well, I would never do that kind of a thing. There's not a mean bone in my body. That's not at all how I roll. You think that, but no matter how small that pressure is it gets ferreted out.

[00:50:24] It's that that idea of what happens when an immovable object gets pressed on by an indestructible force? Well, if there's no flaw in the immovable object, it can hold the weight of whatever force is placed on it. If there is a Fischer, even at a subatomic level, the moment something of infinite mass gets placed on it, it explodes, basically, at the speed of light.

[00:50:47] And that's those checkpoints for your own consciousness. That's what that is. You get placed under ridiculous degrees of weight to see where your mass is. What can you handle? What is the breaking point? They're not easy.

[00:51:04] They really are not easy. I don't know that I would recommend it to anybody. I would maybe say, protract it out, take a couple of lifetimes. Just chill the fuck out. Go slow. Because I too was like, oh, I'm going to race for it and do all this good stuff. Yeah, it's that joke about the path of love and light.

[00:51:21] Sounds great. But when you really get into it, it's harsh. I remember I was working on surrender. Surrender was one of the last things that was very difficult for me. And in our culture, guys in the West, you think of yourself as like, oh, I run a company.

[00:51:37] I do this. It's not something that you are prone to doing, is to actually surrendering. So it took a while. It was really hard. And I finally reached a point where I thought, okay, I've surrendered. I have surrendered fully to God. That's it. I have nothing left to give. So I called our friend Todd, and I went to see Todd and I said, hey, man, that Sonanga thing you do, which is basically capsaicin in the eyes, I said, I need you to do that Sonanga thing on me.

[00:52:05] Because my thought was, if I truly surrendered, then I have surrendered all attributes of form, all emotion, all physical sensation. It no longer belongs to me. So I did that and had him put the drops in my eyes and the whole nine yards. I don't know whether that was really completely there, but when I got up, Todd was surprised and he said, I've never seen that. You didn't flinch. You didn't move. You didn't twitch. Your respiration didn't change. And it didn't because I had truly hit a point where it wasn't mine. This form didn't belong to me.

[00:52:40] It was just processing out some stuff. So I wasn't attached to it, which was great. Like last year, when I was in that motorcycle wreck, it was really nice because when my upper leg bone, my femur ended up inside of my tibia, I was cracking jokes with the EMTs and I had just face planted at 65 miles an hour and my bone was inside the other bone and it split at six inches down like a log.

[00:53:04] And if I had been really tremendously attached to the sensations that were going on, it would have been brutal. It's not the most pleasant of sensations. The only time that I lost that a little bit was when the EMTs accidentally hooked in on the side of the CT scanner and pop the bone out at the other bone. I yelped.

[00:53:28] But other than that, you let that stuff go. You truly have to surrender. It doesn't belong to you anymore. You're doing something in service to a much larger thing. So you just check your own self at the door, which is an odd construct.

[00:53:47] You realize like, okay, I'm opting in, so I'm going to be here, and I'm going to do this thing, but there's a certain component of it where you just check a lot of stuff at the door and leave it behind you.

[00:53:59] Luke: So you're a scientist in the truest sense.

[00:54:01] Ian: Yes, that is true.

[00:54:03] Luke: And over the years, I've observed this, I don't know, I guess just a pretty widely had perspective that on one side of reality you have science and empirical evidence and on the other side you have spirituality and God, and there's been a few intersections of that where they've merged for certain people.

[00:54:26] But I think largely the people on the scientific side still discount spirituality. And in my perspective, true science is just a manifestation of spirituality. So I'm curious because you're one of the few people I know that is analytical, highly intelligent, a lot of intellectual prowess, but you're also deeply embodying spirituality. To you, is there an intersection, or is it one thing, and how have you arrived at your level of understanding?

[00:55:02] Ian: It's one thing. It's all a quest for truth. You want to understand. I think actually one of the things where science goes off the rails is people, because of the interests that they hold near and dear, it's that Upton Sinclair thing of, you'll have a very difficult time getting a man to understand something he's paid to not understand.

[00:55:22] Very often there's different forces at play. People think their livelihood depends on this or that or this or that. And because of that, they let themselves get pulled off. In the quest for science, you're trying to find an answer. You want to know how does something function? What is the truth behind it?

[00:55:38] And that's like peeling an onion. There are a lot of different layers to it. If you had looked at physics 400 years ago, there's the Newtonian approach. If you look at it 100 years ago, there's the relativistic approach, and it gets more and more and more refined over time.

[00:55:54] I think you pull the thread and see what happens. In my case, I'll do an experiment and I'll see what happens. If the resultant data is something that's completely opposing to what I thought, okay, fine. I was wrong. I developed this gamma ray shielding a couple of years ago, and in my head, I thought it was going to work one way.

[00:56:15] Well, it turns out when I actually tested it, I had made a gamma ray waveguide, so I was completely wrong. Now, all I had to do was change one aspect of the configuration and then it worked like the best gamma shielding ever, but it was diametrically opposed, literally, to what I thought it was going to be.

[00:56:34] And if I had been all wrapped around the axle about it and said, oh, well, I thought it was going to be this, then I would have been hosed. Science would not have advanced. I wouldn't have been able to do what I set out to do because my ego would have been all wrapped up in it. And I would have thought like, oh, I'm wrong.

[00:56:50] Or, oh, I'm not smart. And throughout my life, there's been a whole lot of that. Luckily, now that's not really a thing. But for the majority of my life, I was always trying to push, trying to be smarter and do more and do this, and now I want to do those things, and I push myself every day to have a better instrument to be able to do that stuff, but the reason I do it is different, and I think that's changed. But science is still just, in my opinion, a search for truth.

[00:57:20] And if you wrap your ego around it, you're going to get something that's less true because just like a lens, you want it as clean as you can get. You put jelly on the lens and you shine a light through it, things are going to go wrong. And if you shoot a laser through it, things are going to go really wrong.

[00:57:36] Doing kundalini yoga, great thing. Doing kundalini yoga if you're not going to really do all of the other parts of it, hardcore. You might fuck yourself up because you're going to start flowing a lot of energy and it's going to come out sideways. In with most religions over the past couple thousand years, like Catholicism, if you try and say, okay, you're going to do all this meditation, you're going to do all this prayer, you're going to do all these things, but you can't have any physical sexual outlet. And by the way, we're not going to teach you how to swap this energy that you're building at your core and sublimate it to turn into something else.

[00:58:12] That's going to go real sideways. Just going to tell you, there's going to be an unfortunate altar boy somewhere that's going to reap the negative consequences of those guys not knowing how to actually transmute that stuff because they didn't get the training. You've got to fully understand that and move down that path.

[00:58:30] And if you don't know what you're doing, you're going to get hurt. Kundalini is great, but energy always wins. The push to become more and to evolve, that's consistent. It's consistent in science. Most people think that science moves forward. I think that's a ridiculous misnomer. It doesn't move forward. It's like people think the wind blows. The wind doesn't blow. The wind is pulled past you.

[00:58:56] We don't push our way into the future. We're pulled. It's like your consciousness. I always thought, and this was my own experience until a couple of years ago, was that, oh, I'm climbing this mountain. I'm pushing my way up. I'm expanding my consciousness. Utter bullshit. Totally wrong.

[00:59:13] I literally was clenching to the side of that mountain trying not to lose myself, holding onto my ego as tightly as I possibly could. What you realize is like, when you let go, then you actually start to move up.

[00:59:30] The technology that gets expressed for humanity. It gets expressed because it's meant to be there at that time. It's not like we're so brilliant pushing things forward. So we're actually getting drawn into the future. That's why you see equals MC squared occurs at two places on opposite sides of the earth, because that thought form was out there and it needed to become manifest.

[00:59:50] So the thought form finds a person that has the technical capacity to elucidate that concept and bring it forward. Now, I always joke about my idea of reinventing the oval. Every scientist I think has stumbled upon something and we're like, aha, look, a brilliant wheel, but it's just a totally wonky oval.

[01:00:12] It's not very smooth, but the odds are you're not going to find the ultimate form of what you're going after the very first time you see it. It takes refining over time. And I just know from my own personal experience that I have had things that are literally just dropped in my lap. You saw the fireproofing thing.

[01:00:30] I did that thing at my lab for you with the egg. That, I just dialed in and got the answer. And I didn't even understand it. It took me two weeks to figure out how the heck that worked. I literally wrote down the formula for what to do and how to make it, made it, tested it, worked like a champ, blocked millimeter 4000 degrees almost fantastically good.

[01:00:52] I had no clue how that worked. And what was funny is from a chemical standpoint, the constituents of that one was explosive. One was an accelerant. It should have gone boom and hurt me, but instead, it was the heat shielding material anybody had ever seen. I didn't have that knowledge.

[01:01:10] It was out there in the ether. I just was able to simply tap in and ask the question, and because I was using it for something beneficial, I was given the answer. But in truth, the knowledge was already out there. I just had the technical capacity to tap in, ask the question, and bring it forward. It's like that with everything, Marconi and Tesla, radio. It happens at the same time because it's meant to happen for humanity so we can move into the future.

[01:01:35] Luke: Do you believe in the hundredth monkey principle?

[01:01:38] Ian: Very much so, yeah. It's a density of consciousness. It's any wave form that reaches a certain degree of amplitude is going to propagate. And when you reach the mass of enough consciousness, that will propagate and cascade across that entire system. You can see that in the stuff Rupert Sheldrake did in some of his experiments where mice on one component of the world, when you get them to move through a maze, then all of the mice in that same particular genetic lineage, despite where they are in the planet, they suddenly are aware when they're born with that knowledge just on board.

[01:02:18] And it's because consciousness is pervasive. The idea of space is ludicrous, spaces in space. You're not separated by distance. Everything is connected. Again, it's a really beautiful construct, and we buy into it wholeheartedly, but it's just that. It's a construct.

[01:02:35] Luke: Same thing with time. The time thing to me is really trippy because, and it's unlikely I ever would have understood this without the help of psychedelics, so I'll just give credit where credit's due. But I have had the awareness at various times that looking at my own life and experiences I've had and working on healing things and whatnot, that every version of myself from the moment I was born in this lifetime until I am right now are still present and within me.

[01:03:13] So people talk about doing inner child work, and you think on the surface, oh, I need to go back into my memories of what happened when I was five, and I'm going to think about it in a different way from time right now in this moment. The time that I'm going back to using memory is gone and doesn't exist anymore, nor does that five-year-old.

[01:03:37] So it's all happening here in this moment as the adult version of me. And I've had so many experiences wherein I've realized in a very tangible way that that five-year-old me is absolutely still alive and right here, right now, like Russian dolls. I forget what they're called, Mamushka dolls or whatever.

[01:03:54] And it's like you start peeling them back and you're like, when do we get to the end? And there no end. Then you put it back together and every version of that doll is still there, from the tiny little infant doll to the adult old man doll.

[01:04:06] Ian: Yeah.

[01:04:08] Luke: So instances like that, looking at my own life, have led me to the understanding that all of that time is still present in this eternal now. And the only thing that gives us the illusion of time is just that because we're using the avatar body and all of our senses that we can only see and experience what we consider to be this moment and this now, and therefore the now that was 10 minutes ago doesn't exist anymore. But it's only because we're just picking one timestamp on an eternal now.

[01:04:39] Ian: Yeah. I would be inclined say that.

[01:04:41] Luke: With no beginning and no end.

[01:04:43] Ian: The other parts there too. Yeah.

[01:04:44] Luke: Right? So it's like, whoa, if everything is-- and this is just a thought experiment. I want to get your interpretation of this, but if everything is one eternal now, and there's no past and there's no future, it's just an infinite expanse with no beginning and no end, then living in the moment is actually impossible.

[01:05:07] There is no now because the moment you identify the now it's already gone. It's like now's are just gone, gone, gone, gone, gone. So it's like, you can't really live in the moment or live in the now if there is no time. So then where am I in time and space? I'm everywhere, all the time, because there's no location. There's no distance. There's no difference between here and there.

[01:05:32] As you said, there's no space. And if there's no space and there's no time, then, man, life gets really interesting, and more than interesting, it becomes malleable. And that's where I think we can move beyond an empty platitude of like, you create your own reality, which sounds nice in theory, but how does that actually work? It becomes a much more realistic. If we throw time and space out of the equation and we realize like, holy shit, we really are creating every millisecond of our experience.

[01:06:05] Ian: I would think that that's a function of consciousness. The stronger your consciousness, the more you can quite literally create your own experience in your own reality. If you want to turn water into wine, you want to walk on water, you want to fly, you want to do whatever, if it's something that you can imagine, depending on the level of your awareness and your consciousness, I would posit that it is probably capable of being done.

[01:06:31] The beauty of this though is you are separate. You're experiencing things as like I love chicken teriyaki. I don't necessarily want to see myself from the perspective of the thing about to eat it. It's nice to actually have that separation. This place is great. It's like the ultimate family, fun-filled theme ride. You really dive in. That's why if you're going to be here and do stuff, just pick which side of the fence you're going to be on.

[01:07:03] Are you going to play on the nefarious side? Are you going to play on the fun, good side? They both serve a purpose. For my particular flavor, I like the goofy fun side where I can go out and make things and change people's bodies and do stuff to modulate that.

[01:07:19] That's fun. The other questions, they're of such a large order that I don't know that they're really relevant because it's a good intellectual curiosity, but beyond a certain point, does it really make much difference? If you're having a really seriously deep plant medicine experience, your sense of self goes away. Your sense of temporality goes away. All that stuff dips.

[01:07:45] But you wouldn't want to be in that space all the time because this is really cool. Alyson's downstairs. She's awesome, man. That's where it's at. It's like the people in our lives that we get to experience it and walk through with, that's fucking great. That is the best thing ever.

[01:08:05] The rest of it's very cool, but I think you experience this. And even in the more advanced states of awareness, they're great. They serve a purpose. But when you hit them, you have the option of checking out or sticking around. And you just make your call and run with it.

[01:08:22] At least that's my experience. And I very much like the idea that I actually have a persona where I get to interact with people. I think the other one is so disassociated. Speaking, again, truly from personal experience, it's so disassociated that you don't relate to people at all. I don't know that I can--

[01:08:48] Luke: You're cracking me up, dude.

[01:08:53] Ian: Yeah, I don't know that I can really eloquently say it, but you just don't relate.

[01:08:59] Luke: You just answered a great question for me. There was a stage of my evolution where I felt hyper connected to other people and just, I don't know, like a really high degree of empathy and really enjoyed being around people and crowds of people and was just much more extroverted. And over the past couple of years, I have felt, I'm just going to be real, more awkward around people and, I don't know.

[01:09:36] I've never framed it as disassociated per se, but just in my own little world in a way and less into people. You know what I mean? Just, I don't know, being happier by myself or just hanging out with Alyson, and it's something that, I don't know, I've found fault with it. Like, man, I used to be Mr. People Guy. What happened?

[01:10:00] And yeah, it's something I've just played with and tried to just understand to some level. And because I've found fault with it, and I think part of it is just going through a phase of life where the consciousness that I'm experiencing is more insulated and a bit separate.

[01:10:27] Ian: Yeah.

[01:10:28] Luke: Maybe that's just okay because it's part of the journey, but it's something I have struggled with. Like, man, why am I not the gregarious people person that I was just a few years ago. I don't really like being around a lot of people, a lot. And one or two or three people is a pretty good number.

[01:10:44] I like to go to parties or go to concerts. Things that I used to really enjoy, like being around a lot of people and all of that, I'm just in my own little insulated space. And it's weird because it's a new experience. I don't know.

[01:11:00] Ian: It's beautiful though, man. You've actually crafted a really beautiful existence, from the outside.

[01:11:05] Luke: It's one way to look at it. Yeah. I guess it's hard for me to see it that way because you can't really-- it's hard to track your own progress in your own evolution because when you go through changes and just the way that you find your proprioception in the world, as that changes, you only know it subjectively, so you don't-- someone on the outside might be like, wow, you've really evolved. But my experience is like, have I devolved? Because I don't feel that comfortable around that many people.

[01:11:34] There's a certain frequency of person like you, for example. I'm just like, boom, we could just hang all day. I feel totally at ease. And then I get around other people who might be beautiful people and there's nothing wrong with them at all, and I'm just uncomfortable in my skin and I'm antsy.

[01:11:49] And if I'm around people who are less evolved, I get real antsy. If people are still really operating from their wounds and their ego, it's not a judgment thing, like I'm better than them at all because I'm fully aware of my own faults. But if people are still shadowy, it's real uncomfortable, where I used to be able to get in the ring with people that were still in their character defects or their wounds.

[01:12:17] And as long as they were willing to rise up and we could grow together, if I could help them grow, I could be in the ring with them without getting affected. And now I'm not as impervious to that. I really get affected by people who are still operating from their wounds or from ego, and it's just so uncomfortable for me to be in their field.

[01:12:35] Ian: Yeah, no, I get that. I keep a very tight circle. I try and help as many people as I can, but I really do. I don't get out a ton. You've been to my lab.

[01:12:49] Luke: I wouldn't get out much if I had your lab either. It's fun in there.

[01:12:53] Ian: It is fun in there. It's like a mad scientist--

[01:12:55] Luke: Blow torches and homemade hyperbaric chambers and all these-- we haven't even talked about your products. I'm like, yeah, that's one of the main things I want to talk about. But, anyway, so you relate to that--

[01:13:09] Ian: I totally do because I keep a tight circle. Not to say that there's anything wrong with all the other stuff. I'm not really driven to it. I'd be perfectly fine being quiet off in some cabin in the mountains, never uttering another word probably. For as much as I'm out in public doing things seems antithetical, but that's really true.

[01:13:36] I love helping people. I love being around people, but I'm really great just solo, quiet and still. And I used to have a hard time with that. Meditating was one of the most difficult things, and it ended up becoming my favorite thing in the world, but it was brutally hard.

[01:13:54] People who don't do it don't really know. You think like, oh, how simple. You sit down. You're right. That's just at the outset. It actually becomes very difficult because you start to open up and then you start to have to work through all the stuff, and it's hard. But now just chill and very quiet, and I'm good with that.

[01:14:13] Luke: Yeah. I guess it's like a calibration of your vessel as you go through the different stages of development. And when you hit a different level of development, and not to say that we can't regress, and I've regressed a million times, but there is a steady incline toward more coherence, more love.

[01:14:34] Ian: Yeah, I think that's the path that pretty much everybody who's signed on here is moving towards.

[01:14:41] Luke: But there are stages along that ascension that are uncomfortable by their very nature solely because of the unfamiliarity with that new way of feeling and being. So it's like there's a tendency for me to feel like something's wrong just because it's unfamiliar. We were out at a friend's land yesterday, and it's a big piece of property, and I was walking through the field to go to my car and I just had this overwhelming sense that I just want to sit here on a rock for a couple of weeks.

[01:15:22] You know what I mean? It's like I don't want to go on the freeway. I don't even want to come to our home, which is a beautiful, warm, loving space. I just like, I just need to be out here. I just want to look at the sky. I don't want to talk to anyone. And I'm like, it feels like there's something wrong with me for being that way.

[01:15:40] And so it's like a calibration of, oh, I guess I'm just going through the changes where my being is better served with more solitude and more quiet. Which is a strange thing because when I was a kid, I lived in country ass towns in the woods, and it wasn't a lot of people around, and my parents weren't present at times.

[01:16:09] And so there was a lot of time by myself, and I felt so lonely and so sad and I couldn't stand quiet. Being in nature and being quiet was just antithetical to peace for me. So I moved to the city and spent 32 years living in the grind in Hollywood and just--

[01:16:26] Ian: LA, man. Oof. Wow. Talk about noisy.

[01:16:28] Luke: And thrived on constant noise and stimuli and action and all the things.

[01:16:33] Ian: I get your desire to be out just sitting on the road. There's that nature bequeaths its own silence to those who immerse themselves in it. There's that certain degree of very pervasive deep chill that just comes from being outside where you're like, aah.

[01:16:48] Luke: Which is weird though because, yeah, it just takes adjustment. Now, we live maybe 25, 30 minutes from downtown Austin. And I wouldn't say we're in the country, but deep suburbs. And I go into town and I'm just like, get me out of here. I can't stand it.

[01:17:04] Ian: It's actually hard for me sometimes.

[01:17:06] Luke: A Harley goes by and I have a panic attack. I'm like, get me out of here.

[01:17:11] Ian: Have you ever noticed that Sunday is usually the day when the vibe is the best?

[01:17:16] Luke: Yes.

[01:17:17] Ian: And it's because consciousness is pervasive and connected. It's like a bed sheet that maps across the entire planet and all of the people are on it in our particular region of the world. Sunday, people generally are chill. They're more chill. That's why the vibe is like a big sigh of relief because people are more parasympathetic. They lack that crunchy tenuous connection to the society as a whole that they normally have.

[01:17:44] And so I love Sundays because it's like a pause button on the insanity that usually comes across in waves through people's consciousness. Because you can do what you want, but you're all still connected to it. You still get rippled by it. It's literally like a big ocean of awareness that kind of washes. And so Sunday is great for me because I'm like, oh, it's chill. It's like the mountains.

[01:18:06] That's actually why I like the mountains, because the mountains have their own buffering field mountains in the ocean, and they take the edge off of tense consciousness, which makes it really nice.

[01:18:17] Luke: That's interesting about Sundays because I still find Mondays so jarring and that's probably part of the reason why.

[01:18:26] Ian: Yeah. Most people do. It's a function of consciousness. It's because you're connected to that.

[01:18:32] Luke: And I've thought about it. From one perspective, you could say it's just a mental construct. The whole calendar is fake. It's all just a man made misery thing.

[01:18:42] Ian: Yeah. But it's a construct everybody's playing into.

[01:18:43] Luke: Everyone's playing into it. So there is a field on Sundays as you described, and there's going to be a different field on Mondays. Because everyone's like, oh, I got to catch up. And everyone's feeling that collective stress.

[01:18:55] Ian: Consciousness is a lot like a bed sheet. You take one spot on it and you pull it up. Everything that's in proximity moves up with that thing. So as your awareness comes up, all the things close to you will move up and the things at the very edges of the sheet will move very little.

[01:19:11] And when people are super stressed out, the more proximate you are to whatever that point of stress is. If you want to ever have the least chill day you can have, just go sit next to an ER. You don't have to do anything, but I promise you, if you go park your car in a park versus parking your car next to an ER, you can put a blindfold on and put noise canceling earphones on. You will feel the difference.

[01:19:36] Luke: True. I want to cover one more thing on this tangent about which I had no idea we would be going into today.

[01:19:43] Ian: Nor I.

[01:19:44] Luke: I have not once looked at my notes. I'm sorry, Jarrod, you prepared such a beautiful manuscript today and I have literally not looked at it, I think, except just to know what the show notes are, lukestorey.com/ian, I-A-N, 2. And we'll put everything we can in those show notes.

[01:20:01] Ian: It's totally funny. This went in a completely different direction than I either of us thought.

[01:20:05] Luke: 100%. But that's the best. And I'm assuming the best for people listening and watching too, but I do want to cover one more thing and just tease it out because I'm interested in your perspective. So we've talked a lot about reincarnation and this idea that we're a soul that keeps manifesting into these different lifetimes and earning karmic merit and burning karmic debt, etc.

[01:20:25] But if you look at the idea that we were talking about, the time as we know it is not a reality. That there's just an eternal now with no beginning and no end. That begs the question then, when we think about reincarnation as a past life, if there is no past, but we know that we've been here before a number of times, many of us have had experiences, but you didn't want to share yours because you were some kind of asshole in your past lives.

[01:20:58] But many of us have the understanding and the inner knowing that, wow, this isn't my first rodeo. But if there's no time, then that negates the idea of a past life, which would lead me to the awareness that there are maybe infinite simultaneous lives of me living as individuated points of consciousness that we call different people in different "times" that is actually all happening simultaneously in the eternal now.

[01:21:34] So that perhaps there's an eternal self of me that doesn't have a name or body or anything that's just one aspect of God that's floating around wherever it's floating around. And then it's living through all of these different avatars as all these different human beings and different bodies and different times and spaces. But in actuality, it's all just happening at the same time. What do you think about that?

[01:22:04] Ian: Some of the stuff borders on the philosophical more than the-- at least for me. Philosophy drives me insane because people nosh about the concepts a lot. Spirituality to me in essence is nice because it's very practical. It's the best science. You can test it over and over, right? You meditate, you get a certain result.

[01:22:24] You meditate, your consciousness moves. And it's testable, and you can do it over and over. And we keep saying time doesn't exist. That's true, but if you try not to eat from here on for eternity because time isn't a construct, unfortunately, your physical form over there is going to starve, and you will die.

[01:22:41] Your consciousness is localized at one particular frame, and I agree that in theory, in the overall, you're exactly right. You have all these different points that is expressing simultaneity. It is happening all at once, because if you have infinite power as a creator, you're not going to make things in a linear progression. That would be-- what's that term? Dumb. You're going to have it in a co-planar, multi-faceted things where things are separated just by fractions of a degree, and are all occupying the same space and the same reality at the same moment, just separated ever so slightly, which is why with things like DMT-- your DNA, it has a certain frequency.

[01:23:24] You are resonating at a certain frequency. DMT intercalates into your DNA. What does that do? It changes the frequency. It expands the dial on the radio that you're able to pick up. So suddenly you're seeing things that are always there, but they're typically gated and separated from you by just a little sliver.

[01:23:43] That's why people on a DMT trip will very frequently see the same thing. Like, oh my God, did you see that? And they think they're having a the same trip. They're not having the same trip. They're just being exposed to a different piece of the plane that they're not normally able to tune into.

[01:23:59] It's there all the time, but in an infinite universe. It's just portioned out slightly differently so that it's not overwhelming. The old school idea of the image of an angel where it has a thousand eyes, well, why would you need that? Probably because you're working on multi levels of a co-planar existence all at the same time in all sorts of realities that other creatures are not capable of perceiving for their own benefit.

[01:24:26] That's just how that works. I agree. It is happening simultaneously, but the beauty is your consciousness is localized in this one point at this one time. And the other thing that a lot of people on the note of past lives take for granted is they think that it's a progression. You were born in the 1900s and you died at such and such point, and then you're born in the 1970s.

[01:24:52] Probably not the case. More likely than not, you were born in, let's say in the 1970s, you live, you die in the 2000s, and then you might be born in the 1400s. What you need to learn is more prevalent then than it is in the future.

[01:25:06] It's not a linear progression. The epicenter of your consciousness will locate where it needs to so you can pick up the lesson that you need to learn, not the other way around. Again, it's solving the equation from the right side.

[01:25:20] Luke: The nonlinear is really the key to all of this. Because a lot of this can get into mental masturbation, and as you said, philosophizing. It's like, why do you need to figure it out? Just live your life and do the right thing. But I don't know, if you're wired like me, you want to know how everything works.

[01:25:37] But the thing is that what I'm endeavoring to understand and grasp is nonlinear and is beyond what the human mind alone could possibly comprehend. And there's the rub. It's like you can use some intuition and you can use the soul's wisdom and kind of the inner knowing, but it's still going through the filter of the brain, which can really only experience the world in a linear fashion where one plus one equals two and so on. But the soul's kind of in here behind the brain going, yeah, but I want to look past that.

[01:26:15] Ian: Yeah. And I have no doubt, none. I would bet my life on this, that at a certain point you will, 100%. I would be willing to bet my life on that, that that is in the cards for your future. You will have that awareness where you do get to see behind the curtain. And I know you and you are earnestly seeking it out. That's the beauty of, I think, all this stuff, is if you really want the answer and you're willing to in earnest knock on the door, do the work, open the door, walk through it, look around and not shy away for fear, you get the answers.

[01:26:48] They may not be what you think, and it might be super jarring, but you get the answers. And I agree. I'm wired the same way. I always wanted to charge forward and move my consciousness and do all that sorts of stuff. And that was just how I was wired.

[01:27:04] I came into the gate wired like that. You can ask my parents. From the time I was a very, very small child, I was not tracking things normally. I remember going to bed trying to delocalize my consciousness so I could experience the remainder of my body from my toes. No, literally. Yeah, I would try and--

[01:27:25] Luke: You're like five years old doing remote viewing.

[01:27:28] Ian: Actually, I didn't like the concept of sleeping much, and I would try and experience my body through my awareness in different parts of my body. Because it didn't make sense to me that your consciousness only expressed from your head, which is where most people feel like it's localized. Why couldn't I see the rest of my body from my toe or from my finger?

[01:27:51] And so I would do that. And it literally was decades later when I started meditating where I was like, oh, so that's why I did that. It's like a very, very strange arcane approach to things, but there was actually a purpose to it. Because your consciousness isn't actually localized like that.

[01:28:09] It's diasporic. It's separated, and you normally just orient it from one perspective, but it's not like that. And you can shift perspectives. That's why, literally, you can see from someone else's perspective. It's that whole love thy neighbor as thyself.

[01:28:26] Well, if you literally are looking at yourself through your neighbor's eyes, really easy to do because you don't have the perspective of it's us and them. It literally goes back to that Ramana Maharshi thing. From his perspective and where his awareness was, that's how he viewed the world.

[01:28:43] Now, he came back to teach. So to a certain extent, he's going to shelve that and he's going to put together a persona and come back and use that persona to operate through and integrate and work with people. Because he still has to have a linguistic contract to able to deal with people. He still has to have a physical form to be able to deal with people.

[01:28:59] Even guys like that, once they hit that point, they make a decision. Am I going to stay and teach? Am I going to try and impact the culture? And if so, they reconstruct the persona that you would equate with them. And then they use that. But that's not really where they are. That's just a tool that they're using to do that.

[01:29:23] Luke: Wow, I like what you were saying about, with a DMT experience, for example, that if you and I right now, both, took some DMT, which we could. I have some. That would make a good podcast.

[01:29:43] Ian: Yeah, I'm game. I can already tell you what's going to happen.

[01:29:48] Luke: But to your point, which I think is so interesting, you have the reductionist mechanistic scientific-minded people that annoy the shit out of me that would say that when you put DMT in your bloodstream and it hits your brain, that it is causing you to have these hallucinations that aren't there, other dimensions, beings, etc. And I don't think that's true. What you said makes more sense to me that all of this, the multi dimensionality that exists is always present.

[01:30:24] It's just that our receiver in our senses is just not attuned to it because it would be too overwhelming. So it's like, if you put a curtain right here in front of us where these cameras and Jarrod are, everything behind that curtain still exists. It'd be too much to hold if we're trying to focus on one another.

[01:30:43] And then you introduce DMT or psilocybin, whatever it is. And all of a sudden that curtain gets removed and you're seeing everything that's already there. And that's why you and I would both see the same thing on the other side of room.

[01:30:54] Ian: Have you seen the experiment of the University College London where they figured out how, instead of having a DMT trip just be really, really rapid, they actually protrac it via drip?

[01:31:03] Luke: I really want to do that.

[01:31:08] Ian: What they found, though, and this is really great, is people would go into these places, these altered states, and have a conversation with an entity there, and then another person later would go into that place and have a conversation with that same entity and exchange and receive the information that the first person had.

[01:31:27] So that's not a shared trip. You're talking to something that's there. And again, I know that's going to probably piss a lot of people off, but it is what it is. I didn't build this place. That's just how the reality of--

[01:31:44] Luke: Don't shoot the messenger.

[01:31:45] Ian: Yeah. Unfortunately, that's usually what happens to scientists, though. When you actually, in earnest, pull the thread and say like, hey, look, this is what we found, doesn't play so well. Historically, there's a great degree of persecution for people who are ringing the bell going, look at what I found. Nobody really wants to hear that. They just want to keep tolling along, ring the bell the way they're doing it.

[01:32:08] Luke: Ah. It's so weird to me. I just can't imagine. I guess everyone's just created through, I don't know, nature and nurture, I suppose, to be one way or the other. I can't imagine being like, it's like that. I can't hear you. La, la, la, la, la. I just am like--

[01:32:28] Ian: Serenity now.

[01:32:29] Luke: Why would you ever be like that? It's so fascinating to embrace the infinite nature of reality. It's so fun.

[01:32:41] Ian: It truly is beautiful. Just beautiful. This whole place is gorgeous, warts and all. It's like when you love someone. You don't just love one aspect of them. If you've ever really, and I know you have, deeply loved someone, you don't care about what is perceived as an imperfection. It's not an imperfection. It's a part of them.

[01:33:02] Luke: It's enduring. Yeah. There's things-- I think Alyson's within earshot. She's probably going to ask me, what were you talking about? There are things sometimes that Alyson does that I don't think I've ever really been truly pissed at her. Maybe a couple of times I've been pissed off and I'm like, I'm going to go in my room and not talk to her.

[01:33:23] I'm mad a couple of times for a few minutes maybe. And then I'm like, you're being an idiot. You love her. But there's personality traits that anyone we love might possess or exercise. And there's a couple of things that she does sometimes that I find mildly annoying. And they're only annoying for a few seconds and then they become endearing.

[01:33:45] And I go, oh, that's so uniquely her, that one thing she does. It's so beautiful because it's part of her essence. And it's only my perception of it or my perspective of it that would ever think, oh, it should be another way. She should act this other way. Well, if she did that other thing, she wouldn't be her anymore.

[01:34:07] Ian: Right. No, that's what I was joking about with my dad. We literally jokingly call him the harbinger of doom because he's constantly like, oh, we're all going to die. And that's the good news. It's a lot of stuff like that, but it's a joke, and I wouldn't have it any other way because it's a beautiful counterpoint, but it's just who he is. And you pick up one end of the stick, you pick up the stick. You take the people you love for exactly face value, who and what they are, warts and all, everything. And to me, that's the beauty of being here. It's that love thing. You truly express the love you have for other people. Best thing ever.

[01:34:50] Luke: Yeah. Yeah, it is. There's so many directions I want to go. I want to say one more thing, and then I want to get into some of your research and your latest developments, because, I know. I talk to you or see you a couple of times a year, once a year, whatever it is, and every time you have this freaking wild ass oxygen water. Your inventions are super next level, so I would be remiss if we didn't talk about some of that.

[01:35:16] But one last thing I want to share that was such an important piece to these different dimensions that are always around us and always exist, but that we're not always able to tune into, a few nights ago, we had a friend over who had never worked with any psychedelics or plant medicines and she was like, hey, do you guys have anything around? I'm curious.

[01:35:41] Ian: Do you have anything around? Knowing you, that's a hilarious statement.

[01:35:47] Luke: Yeah. And I'm by no stretch a facilitator or shaman or anything like that, and I don't pretend to be, but I did have a version of some DMT that is pretty easy to ease yourself into without the full scent.

[01:36:03] You can smoke it, and it can be very mild and really do nothing unless you push it past that threshold. So I was serving her some of that with kid gloves, just very cautiously, just a tiny little bit. And she's looking at me like, nothing's happening.

[01:36:21] Okay, let's try a little more. Then we finally hit the threshold of perception and she was sitting right here. And it was dark. And she just starts laughing her ass off, and she starts looking down that hall, and she's pointing to me and Alyson. We're singing her songs, our own little versions of Icaros, I guess, you could say.

[01:36:41] And she's like, do you guys see that? Do you see them? And I was like, Them who? She goes, them. They're all right there. And she was seeing some entities or angels in the hall. To one type of person, you'd be like, this chick just lost her mind. Or it's like her brain is creating some hallucination.

[01:37:01] To me, and probably to Alyson too, we were like, oh, that's awesome. There's some benevolent beings hanging out in our hallway that are probably always there or else they just decided to visit right now. But we just can't see them because we're not using DMT. She's the only one that pulled down the curtain right now. And we helped her pull down the curtain for a few minutes, and she had a beautiful, introductory, very soft and gentle experience, but it was enough for her to see like, oh shit, the veil's down. And there's some cats hanging out in the hallway.

[01:37:36] Ian: I actually wish everybody got to have that an experience. I didn't for the longest time until probably way too late because I was like an altar boy, basically. Totally clean, straight arrow, Boy Scout, never did a single drug until the point at which they were probably pointless for me. But I just hadn't ever partaken, but I wish everybody got to have those experiences because they're profound.

[01:38:05] And it is a beautifully elegant way of opening that door up if you're in the right environment. There are cases that can be made for people abusing it, but I think in general, like with the kind of plant medicine that you're doing, hugely beneficial psilocybin, I mean, I know from my daughter having issues with anxiety and me developing a formulation that was based around psilocybin, because that's what she needed.

[01:38:32] She didn't need the other things that have far more pronounced side effects that really have some detriment to them. She needed this particular thing. I have no problem with that. I think it's beautiful, actually, and I wish more people had those experiences. In her case it was a very small micro dose, but it elicited the right biological response.

[01:38:50] But for your friend, yeah, I mean, she will never forget that experience. Like it was. I'm sure probably one of the most profound things she's ever experienced.

[01:38:58] Luke: I would say so. It was beautiful for me just to-- it feels good to be trusted by someone.

[01:39:06] Ian: Yeah. The space that you've created here, it does have an awesome vibe. It would not at all shock me that a bunch of like really cool benevolent beings are just like, yeah, I'm just to go chill out here.

[01:39:19] Luke: I was a little tempted, to be honest, because I was like, maybe I should take a hit of that. I took a tiny, tiny little bit, but not enough to really produce a state change. But I was kind of like, I want to see him. What are you seeing down the hallway? I'd love to see them right now. And I chose not to in that particular moment because I was just holding space for her.

[01:39:36] But yeah, it's beautiful. I love that world. There are, of course, people that are doing it dangerously. And I always give the disclaimer, it's not for everyone, yada, yada. And it's true. I mean, it can go horribly wrong. I know that because when I was young, I used to do psychedelics all the time, indiscriminately and put myself in a lot of dangerous situations and cause myself a fair amount of emotional harm from just being traumatized while under the influence of LSD and things like that. And I would not advise that. But that said, I naively-- this is like universal, anytime I sit with the plant medicine or use psychedelics intentionally, every single time during the experience, I'm like, my mom needs to do this. My dad needs to do it, everyone needs to do it. The president needs-- we need to infuse DMT into the white house tomorrow. It's like I have this whole plan for how to transform the world.

[01:40:33] And then the next morning I wake up and go, you know what? It's none of my business if everyone has this experience, although I think it would be useful.

[01:40:41] Ian: It's a good tool. Most of those things are really good tools in the right hands. Things have a lot of positive benefit potentially, but sometimes they go horribly off the rails.

[01:40:52] Luke: Yeah, a tool is a great way to contextualize it. I mean, look at a gun. If you're--

[01:40:58] Ian: It's an actuating thing.

[01:40:59] Luke: You're stranded out in the woods and you're starving to death, a gun is probably the most useful tool you could ever have. If you're psychotic and you hate humanity, probably not a good idea to carry a gun with you.

[01:41:11] Ian: Yeah. A gun and a hammer are basically percussive actuating tools. One operates approximately and one operates at a distance. Same damn thing. They're both tools.

[01:41:20] Luke: Said like a great scientist. All right. I would be remiss if I didn't talk about some of your latest inventions. So for those listening that aren't aware of Ian any work, you have a company called Wizard Sciences. And maybe actually even before that, I know that you used to do a lot of formulating as a scientist in your lab and creating supplements, different products for other people. I don't think you're-- well, I know you're not a money-motivated person because you would have had your own company long time ago instead of making other people rich.

[01:41:55] At some point you're like, wow, I make some pretty novel and very effective and very pure and safe products. Maybe I should just do my own thing. What was the deciding factor or moment when you said, you know what? I'm doing all this great stuff for other people. I want to do my own thing.

[01:42:12] Ian: Actually, I got back after a business trip and had received a letter at my previous company that I had started, but I had brought on partners from the accountant who was the primary partner that I was the board, no longer wanted to be in day to day operations because I was too focused on trying to push the products and develop new things.

[01:42:37] And I think they were a bit myth that I wasn't copacetic with the idea of just trying to increase profits. I really wanted to keep pushing the bounds because what we were working on, there's a lot of work that needed to be done. There's a lot of science that was still yet to be developed and sussed out.

[01:42:54] And when your mindset is like, oh, it's a company. We just want to make money. Okay, great. So what do you do? You stop development and you just try and figure out how to make it cheaper and cheaper and cheaper so you can maximize your margins. I get that. That was not my jam. And I think I had frustrated those guys because I am not really the guy who's going to stop tinkering and trying to improve things.

[01:43:21] And yeah, my motivation was not the bottom line. My motivation was how much benefit can I actually provide? And one of the other things was at the time I was working with a group that was developing products with mushrooms, and my group had come to me and said, okay, we're going to try and develop something with mushrooms.

[01:43:40] And I said, sorry, I can't do it. With deference to the other guys that I'm helping out, I can't take what I have worked on for them and then use it here. That's not going to happen. At the end of the day, it's hard to shave if you can't look yourself in the mirror, to quote my grandfather like so.

[01:43:59] Luke: Oh, I like that.

[01:44:00] Ian: That's a line I'm not going to cross.

[01:44:02] Luke: Even though neither of us shave.

[01:44:03] Ian: Yeah.

[01:44:04] Luke: I get the metaphor

[01:44:06] Ian: Right. Yeah. So that was just a line that I wasn't willing to cross, and I think it very much upset them that like, oh, you're off doing these other things and you want to keep spending money and developing stuff. And it wasn't a good fit any longer.

[01:44:17] And there was such pushback from that that I was like, okay, you don't want me in day to day operations. I'm not a guy who's just like a bean counter. I'm not going to just try and schlep stuff. One, I'm not a coke addict, and I don't wear a blue jumpsuit, so I'm not going to go out and shim. Wow.

[01:44:37] That wasn't my gig. I wanted to develop the science and really push it. So I thought, okay, I'm going to go start my own gig and just develop the best stuff I can. And so that's what I did. And I started it two and a half years ago, going on three years now, and have done some really good stuff.

[01:44:59] I hit a couple of good strokes. There've been some really great products, some of which I'm very proud of. A lot of them, unfortunately, I can't even really share terribly publicly. A lot of people know what some of them are, but just for fear of reprisal because you never want to treat or cure any sort of disease or condition.

[01:45:20] Luke: Those damn claims. I find that to be so frustrating, and also in just my conversations with people like you that are well meaning, brilliant inventors, formulators, etc., I know on the down low-- you and I have talked. I've called you on numerous occasions. I think I talked to you once about Alzheimer's and you were telling me about this particular-- what is this? The Neural RX. And you told me some anecdotal--

[01:45:48] Ian: Yeah. And there's some testimonials from people where it's, bye.

[01:45:51] Luke: Yeah. And then the big C. I've called you a couple of times when friends of mine have had the big C and you're like, do this, do that, take this, some of your products, and some other recommendations. And then you get positive results, and it sucks. You have a gag order that you can't talk about it.

[01:46:08] Ian: It does actually suck. I get it because there are a lot of people out there who wouldn't be doing it in an ethical way. So those systems are in place for a reason. They don't always apply, but they are in place for a reason. It's like building code enforcement. You have building inspectors. A lot of times they're really good guys with the right intent.

[01:46:30] A lot of times they're little demagogues who just want to express what small degree of power they have. In the considerations, when I look at pharma and like the FDA, the unfortunate part is that's just basically bought and paid for.

[01:46:44] It's a gatekeeper that's set up as a barrier to entry. If you don't have billions of dollars, you simply can't play that game. And from their standpoint, you have to respect it because it's really brilliant. You find guys who are the biochemists of the world or whatever particular field of endeavor they're in. You say like, oh, that's a great idea.

[01:47:03] We're going to buy it from you because we can actually do something with it, whereas you can't. Well, the fee, if you file for the IND one for the investigation of a new drug, the filing fee is half a million bucks. Am I going to strike a check for half a million bucks?

[01:47:22] And then knowing that I'm going to have to spend on average 1.125 billion dollars to get that done, unfortunately, I don't have that to play with right now. But that's what's requisite to play in that arena. And it's a gatekeeping function.

[01:47:40] So what I try and do is I will do smaller scale stuff and help people where I can and elicit change where I can. And that's it. And some people, it's grown. It's propagated. That wave is, I'm focusing on what I can change, and it's gotten bigger and bigger and bigger. And eventually, over time, I expect that it will actually be impactful enough that it will change a lot of people's lives. But it's pushing the swing at the exact right moment.

[01:48:09] You build that resonance just by repetitive successes over and over and over and helping people over and over and over. And then your network becomes strong enough and large enough that you can actually make a difference. Because even if people are like, oh, well, I haven't seen the double-blind placebo control trial of that, but you know somebody that's actually worked for.

[01:48:32] Do you need to see $100 million study that says that, or can you just talk to someone who says, yeah, fixed me? Or it fixed my mom or something like that. Because we're in Austin, one of the testimonials I have is from a doctor here in Austin who used that stuff with her mom who was just wiped from Alzheimer's.

[01:48:53] Luke: This stuff, the Neural RX, which I'm almost out of, by the way, hint, hint.

[01:48:58] Ian: Yeah. Dude, happy to keep you--

[01:49:00] Luke: I take a couple of swags of this everyday. I just drink it right out of the bottle.

[01:49:03] Ian: The funny part about that is when--

[01:49:05] Luke: I want to have some right now because I'm tired from two interviews.

[01:49:08] Ian: Yeah. When I made that, it was interesting because what I realized is Alzheimer's isn't a disease. It's a protective mechanism, and everyone is subjected to the stuff on a daily basis that is actually triggering that.

[01:49:23] And so we need to pump the brakes on all those different components. There are other ways you can do it. That's a handy way to do it because it effects change on all of the different components that I could isolate. And not to say that it's a perfect setup, but it does work, and I've seen it work multiple times.

[01:49:44] So I wish everybody were taking that kind of stuff. And if not for me, just from whomever, something similar so you can clean the plaques out of your brain because we're all besieged by glyphosate and heavy metals and phyto compounds that are the detrimental kind of, all of the different compounds that are mimicking hormone mimetics and things like that.

[01:50:07] There's so many things that we are hammered with on a daily basis, even just EMFs. That affects voltage-gated calcium channels in your brain, which changes the efflux of debris and detritus in your brain.

[01:50:22] Luke: Yeah. Do you think that the calcium-- what is it? Calcium gated voltage?

[01:50:28] Ian: Voltage-gated calcium channels.

[01:50:29] Luke: Voltage-gated-- explain what that is because about to do it poorly. But when I think about heart disease and Alzheimer's, neurodegenerative stuff, where you have this buildup of plaque, it seems there is an obvious correlation between too much calcium in the system, because it's not getting shuttled where it's supposed to go, it's getting into your cells. As related to EMF, is that true at all?

[01:50:53] Ian: Not so much. Not with those particular diseases. Not like with cardiac stuff. Even really not so much with the mental stuff. It is problematic, but it's problematic more because of not cycling waste properly.

[01:51:06] Luke: Okay.

[01:51:07] Ian: Cell phones are actually probably the biggest culprit, literally, because you have it in such a close proximity to your head. And the frequencies coming off my iPhone- Yeah. Right. People laugh because they still wear--

[01:51:19] Luke: I'm on speakerphone with my DefenderShield case holding my phone out here.

[01:51:24] Ian: Hello. You've got your megaphone? Hello.

[01:51:27] Luke: Inverse square law, man. Distance.

[01:51:29] Ian: That's the best thing for you. That's the best protection because when your phone tries to transmit the signal boost so you're getting more EMF exposure and I mean your defender shield thing, great idea. Rock that.

[01:51:41] But the gated calcium channel flow doesn't really affect that so much. The big culprits are physical stressors. Sometimes it's emotional stressors, but the big culprits, I think, are things like P. gingivalis in your mouth because it's so close to your brain. And what does your brain do when it has something that's impacting it? It just wraps it in a little protein packet, tau proteins, a little bit of plaque.

[01:52:06] Luke: Is that like a bacterial infection in your gums or something? Ah, okay.

[01:52:10] Ian: Exactly. Yeah.

[01:52:12] Luke: Ah, okay. And I bet cavitation probably would be part of that equation too.

[01:52:15] Ian: There's so many issues that you don't think of. Humans really do. We suck at multivariate systems analysis. When one thing that we call a problem, like say Alzheimer's, has a host of reasons that can actually be causal, we're like, oh, well, we checked it for this. It's not that.

[01:52:35] Well, maybe not in that person, but maybe in this person. And so if you have one condition that can be triggered-- it's like Hashimoto's. Hashimoto's very commonly known to be triggered by emotional stress, by physical stress, or even by physical trauma.

[01:52:52] You can get in a car wreck, and it can trigger Hashimoto's. Because it doesn't matter what the origin of the stress was. It's still a stress. And it's the Chairman Mao thing of fear. It doesn't matter if it's incited or real or elicited or imaginary. It's the same net result. It's still fear.

[01:53:14] And this, whatever the biological insult is, whether it's a chemical or a metal or a bacteria or a virus, whatever, it's still an insult. And so I just wish people were taking things like that just so that they could combat the daily aggregation of all that stuff. Because what happens is you don't really see it building up over time until it becomes an issue.

[01:53:34] It's like you're setting aside garbage and things that could be damaging and then it's not a problem, not a problem, not a problem, not a problem. But at a certain point it becomes problematic and the scales tip. And as you get older, your brain's glymphatic system, which uses interstitial fluid and cerebrospinal fluid to wash, it's literally a hydrostatic pressure system.

[01:53:55] And so the older you get, your mitochondria have less force, hence the pump has less force. So you're not cleaning yourself as fully. So you have more of a buildup and you have less capacity to clean it. So it's a negative feedback loop that builds on itself, and it just becomes more and more and more of a problem.

[01:54:13] But the beauty is there are easy ways to deal with that. This is just one. There's lots. That's kind of indicative of some of the stuff I do though because that had a specific purpose. Find a specific disease that somebody was having a problem with. They asked me to do something, and so I did.

[01:54:35] The other things up here, that one, the MitoCure, that is arguably my favorite supplement. And it's like methylene blue, urolithin A, PQQ, and then a nitric oxide blend, which is just arginine and citrulline. And the rationale for that is I had been taking urolithin because it purges mitochondria and it triggers mitophagy.

[01:54:55] And there's a company that had been making a lot of urolithin A products, which I took. And I met with one of the guys and said, look, you should do it like this. This is a better version. Because you're not just trying to trigger mitophagy and replace the mitochondria.

[01:55:11] What you really want to do is you want to create a clean signal from the noise, which is why there's methylene blue in it, so you can actually see what you're doing. And then you want to increase mitochondrial biogenesis, get a higher density and more of them. And so that's PQQ, pyrrolequinoline quinone, that triggers that upreg.

[01:55:28] Luke: Is that why PQQ gives you energy?

[01:55:32] Ian: Yes. It's interesting because per volume, a couple of milligrams of PQQ per kilogram of food actually elicits a very large biological response. So you need very, very small amounts of it. Actually, there's probably, I think, ballpark, about 10 or 11 milligrams per dose in that. Maybe a hair more. And then there's about a little more than five milligrams of methylene blue. But again, those are just after effects.

[01:56:01] So you increase the signal so you can see the signal from the noise. Then you go in and you purge the mitochondria. Then you make more of them. And for me, it's a math thing. The one thing I will say is methylene blue causes transient dip in nitric oxide synthase, and most people who are at the age where they're worried about swapping out their mitochondria don't really want that dip in nitric oxide. So I just put all the precursors in so that can activate the substrate.

[01:56:29] Luke: Oh, that's cool.

[01:56:30] Ian: Yeah, well, it just counters it, so you activate it before you get the little dip.

[01:56:34] Luke: You're a smart fucker, man. The way you formulate stuff is interesting. Because I'll see some of your stuff. This new one, that's your favorite, which says a lot. MitoCure RX is the one you're speaking of. So these are capsules in this-- what's this color? Blue?

[01:56:52] Ian: Cobalt.

[01:56:34] Luke: Cobalt. Yes, yes. Love that color. It's funny because I looked at the ingredients when you sent me a bottle and I was like, I already take urolithin A, methylene blue, PQQ, and even these amino acids, the nitric oxide, I was like, I don't know. I already take that stuff. What's the point? But then I'll talk to you and you explain like, oh, each one needs the other one because it's synergistic relationship.

[01:57:19] Ian: Yeah. There's one I'm about to come out with that is NMN, apigenin or apigenin, depending on who you speak with, and then not resveratrol, but ginsenicides. And historically, most people take NMN and resveratrol. And if you look at the studies, ginsenicides are so much more effective.

[01:57:41] Luke: That come from ginseng?

[01:57:44] Ian: Yeah. And I'll send you the graphs of it and you can post it in the show notes, but it's massive difference. You get a little bit in your skeletal muscle. You get a little bit in your brain, a little bit in your heart. You get more like for NAD precursors.

[01:57:57] So you can get a certain amount of NMN to go in. But if you couple it with resveratrol, you get a little more. But if you couple it with ginseng derivatives, you get this huge amount. And then if you put the apigenin in, it blocks the CD38 so you don't get the breakdown, and so your body has longer to actually process it. So you get this massive uptick.

[01:58:17] It's looking at things and not just hitting it at face value. It's like thinking through the puzzle. First, you have to identify, what is the puzzle? And then once you really understand what it is, like this, I wanted more mitochondrial density. Well, why?

[01:58:33] You got 4 trillion of them. If you replace them in a one to one basis, you've got 4 trillion of them that maybe go from operating at 70% capacity to 90% capacity. But if you replace them at a 1 to 1.3 ratio, you end up with 5.2 trillion. So even if you don't increase the capacity, you still are running at close to 100% of what you were before.

[01:58:59] And then if you do something-- one of the serums, like the Olympic serum or Evolve, something that's just like a carbon 60 based formula, well, those things right out of the gate trigger a massive uptick in mitochondrial function and ATP production. So if you stack those things, then you end up running it for ballpark numbers, like 140% of what your previous capacity was after a couple of months.

[01:59:23] And I got a lot of stuff that I really want to do, and so I have to make sure that I have the energy to do it. And admittedly, I run my body into the ground. But I got a lot of things that I want to accomplish. And if this is the vessel that I'm going to use to do it, I have to have a certain degree of mental acuity to pull it off.

[01:59:41] And so I've got to process through that. And these are the tools of the trade. That's what I'm going to do. And if it existed out there, like I was taking urolithin A, that was good. This was better. Those guys didn't want to do it. So scratch your own itch. Define the things that you need, and then build the tools that you need to get the job done.

[02:00:02] Luke: It must be so fun. I wish I had the scientific-- my brain just doesn't work like that. I have other gifts, but imagining myself with your lab and your intellect, I would be like, as you always do, like, ha, ha. Mustache twist. I'm like, oh my God, I could make some cool shit. Because I have the ideas for things, but it's like, I would have no idea how to formulate something and understanding the chemistry and biochemistry and all of that.

[02:00:31] Ian: I love that.

[02:00:33] Luke: At least I get to know you and you send me the shit you come up with and I get to take it.

[02:00:39] Ian: Well, some of it's, it's like, this one is the dermal serum, and I just released that. And that's for psoriasis and eczema primarily. And it works like a champ. If you look at the testimonials that people have sent in, it's awesome. It's great stuff.

[02:00:54] Luke: What's in that one?

[02:00:55] Ian: So it's a small chain fat caprylic acid. So it's a medium chain triglyceride, but it's relatively in terms of size, a tiny chain link C8, and then it's bound to C60. And then it's got a form of CoQ10 in it. I'm preaching to the choir. It's the same thing where you provide the body the tools that it needs to do what it needs to do.

[02:01:19] So psoriasis and eczema, they get a massive boost because suddenly the mitochondria and those regions are amping up at the same time you're dropping cytokines. So you squelch the cytokines.

[02:01:31] Luke: And it's topical.

[02:01:32] Ian: And it's topical. Yeah. So inflammatory response dips out at the same time you trigger an up regulation and energy production. And so the body just fixes itself. In my opinion, if you really are good at biochemical stuff, you realize like, I'm not going to figure out a system that's better than nature. So I'm just going to try and give it what it needs so it can do its job. And that's it. And then just get out of the way.

[02:01:56] This one, the hair growth stuff, which is coming out very shortly-- we actually have a separate site called Repair Hair Loss, and that comes out, but that's same thing. It's a non-comedogenic, so it's not an oily thing, but it's a lipid that's bound to a C60, but it has peptides and stabilized exosomes and it's got a whole host of thing.

[02:02:21] Luke: I'm so stoked for that.

[02:02:22] Ian: Yeah. That stuff is--

[02:02:23] Luke: I'm a good case study because every year I watch my hairline go back by about a quarter inch. I'm just like, oh man.

[02:02:30] Ian: Yeah, it's great. But it's got all the components of things I want.

[02:02:34] Luke: Would you use a derma roller?

[02:02:36] Ian: Yeah. 100%. Yeah. I would use a derma roller and a red light. I've got a whole--

[02:02:40] Luke: It's not greasy?

[02:02:41] Ian: No.

[02:02:42] Luke: Wow. That's cool.

[02:02:43] Ian: Here. Try it. It's exceedingly cool because you put it on. It feels oily.

[02:02:47] Luke: I put it on and I get like Chia pet hairs just start popping up right now.

[02:02:53] Ian: Luke Storey, the man with the afro.

[02:02:54] Luke: Well, a couple of years ago you sent me a hair serum, I think one of your prototypes and--

[02:03:04] Ian: That was iteration two. This is iteration 5

[02:03:06] Luke: Yeah. I wouldn't say it was greasy, but greasy enough where if I like put it on at night my pillowcase is trashed. And I've put on during the day. I'm all shiny and greasy looking. So I've been kind of waiting, like, oh, it'd be cool if I could do it and just live my life and not have to relegate time where I don't mind looking like a grease monkey.

[02:03:30] Ian: It took a little bit actually trying to figure out--

[02:03:32] Luke: Nice packaging too.

[02:03:33] Ian: Oh, thank you.

[02:03:34] Luke: Nice feel. I like the little rubberized label.

[02:03:37] Ian: Thank you. Yeah, all of these things they take a while. That's why it's kind of an iterative thing, is because I'll go, huh. You know what would have worked better? Again, it's that reinventing the oval. I, too, fall prey to the same normal human thing of like, oh, this is a great idea. It's the best thing ever. And then you go in a couple of months and you're like, yeah. It's like NMN and ginsengicides.

[02:04:01] I have resveratrol and a bunch of stuff. And for those, I will probably keep it for specific reasons. But just in terms of a supplement, ginsengicides are better. And why would I continue to do what everybody else is doing when I have seen the data and it's clear? It's not even marginal. It's absolutely crystal clear. This is better.

[02:04:23] Luke: I think that's an interesting element into what goes into the development of your wizard sciences stuff is you can't make medical claims, even though you have valid anecdotal reports and testimonials. But because of those regulations, which, as you said, they serve a purpose. But what you can do is if you have a brain like yours, you can mull over the research and make those distinctions between these different molecules and what happens when you stack them.

[02:04:54] So you can say resveratrol does X, Y, and Z because there's clinical data to support that. And it's up to the consumer to kind of put two and two together and know like, all right, if we're talking about the big C or dementia or hair loss or whatever it is, eczema, you can't come out and say this cures eczema. But you can say, in this study, this particular substance was shown to do X, Y, and Z. Is that how it works?

[02:05:18] Ian: That is how it works like. May help with the symptoms associated with the thought about the problem that seem. It's all BS obfuscation language. But yeah, if that's the game you have to play, there's no sense in getting grumbly about it. That's the game. Okay, fine. We'll do it.

[02:05:37] Luke: And I'm sure you're still doing well. Your company's--

[02:05:41] Ian: Yeah, it's growing.

[02:05:41] Luke: Stable and growing and everything's cool. By the way, said company, you guys, you can find it wizardsciences.com. We'll also put that in the show notes with everything we talked about as I mentioned earlier. And looks like we've got a 15% discount using the code LUKE. So wizard sciences.com, code LUKE. Like everything else I ever talk about with guests, I just don't talk about shit or give people links and codes unless I literally use the products all the time.

[02:06:12] Ian: Yeah. I know you've been using that for years.

[02:06:14] Luke: Yeah. I go through it. There was a point in the beginning when you guys launched. You were super generous. And I was like, shit, you guys sent me five bottles of this. And then as you've grown, you probably work with more influencers, so I don't get the lion share.

[02:06:26] Ian: Seriously, just hit me up.

[02:06:28] Luke: But yeah, I'll kind of like pace myself. And then eventually I ended up hitting up Todd, like, hey, would you guys mind sending me a bottle of the thing?

[02:06:35] Ian: I will unequivocally say, just hit me up. Don't even hesitate. Just text me.

[02:06:40] Luke: I never want to be entitled.

[02:06:44] Ian: Trust me, there are certain people who are in the world. You are not one of them.

[02:06:47] Luke: Good. I'm glad to hear that.

[02:06:49] Ian: And I would not pull any punches. But yeah, hit me up anytime, man. I applaud how you roll and what you're doing, and anything I can do to support it, I'm going to do.

[02:06:59] Luke: I appreciate that. Well, my brain-- and like you said, I'm aging. I'm 53. I'm going to be 54 this year. I would say, aside from this tinnitus issue and my eyes aren't great, after like seven hours of podcasting, you're a little blurry now. You were clearer before. There's just things like that.

[02:07:25] But with the goals I have in the world and how I want to contribute my gifts and my energy, my brain needs to work really well. I need to be sharp or it's just not fun to do what I do. So I think that's why a lot of your products have to do with energy and mental acuity and sharpness and memory and creativity and all of those things there. Even though you don't like market as nootropics, a few of your things are very powerful nootropics because you're targeting the mitochondria, I think is what it is. And it's like, when you have that kind of metabolic energy, everything just works better.

[02:08:01] Ian: Do you know Drew Pearson?

[02:08:03] Luke: You introduced me to him. We talked about neurofeedback. Yeah. I was contemplating going to see him in San Diego to see if he could fix my ears.

[02:08:11] Ian: Yeah, he is great in terms of QEEG work. And when I was at his facility in San Diego, we had a QEEG hooked up, and I was tracking my evoked neural potentials. It more than doubles when you take that stuff. When the serum kicks, it just goes through the roof. You literally have so much neural potential that it pales by comparison.

[02:08:41] It more than doubles. It's just ridiculous how well it works. And it kicks in too because we had it at threshold. I had capped out as much as I could do and I took the serum while still on the QEEG. Everything was fine. Everything was fine. Everything was fine. Not going up, not going down, and then the serum kicked in and it just started going up

[02:09:01] Luke: No shit.

[02:09:02] Ian: Yeah, it was so kick ass to see it empirically where you're actually on it. You're like, wow. Yeah, it was great to actually have formal data, looking at it, and going, damn, that's okay. I could feel it, but it's kind of funny. You can feel it, so you have the anecdotal data, but when you actually see it and you're like, well, it's really cool to actually get a solid data set and go, yeah, told you.

[02:09:28] Luke: I agree. I love to quantify. And I wish neurofeedback was like more kind of home friendly, but I do have a neurofeedback device called the Mendi. I don't know if you're familiar with this thing.

[02:09:39] Ian: Yeah. Actually, you told me about it and I bought one.

[02:09:41] Luke: Oh yeah. Super cool. It's not as advanced as something like Drew's doing by any means, but it is effective, and there's definitely data support that it is helpful. But I love that particular device because I'll try different things and I'll see how sleepy my brain is, how much neural activity I can actually produce based on blood flow is. How this particular one works.

[02:10:05] And so I've done different experiments with it where I take different supplements or I take a microdose of a plant medicine or something, but what makes the freaking brain activity off the charts is the BioCharger. I'll sit in front of that thing with the Mendi on and my score just goes through the roof, like red line. It's so interesting.

[02:10:24] Because people ask me, what does the BioCharger do? And I'm like, I'm not that good at explaining it. I just know, if you sit in front of it, depending on the frequency you choose, it can give you a lot of energy or it can help you really calm down and meditate and so on.

[02:10:37] But I'll put it on one of the high energy ones, like Turbo Boost or whatever. I think one's called Nitro. That one knocks you on your ass. And I put that thing on, sit there with the Mendi, and I watch my score, and it's just off the charts. It's so fun.

[02:10:52] Ian: You remember the Likovsky chair at my lab?

[02:10:53] Luke: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[02:10:54] Ian: Right. When you sit in a Likovsky chair, same effect. Because you have all of these frequencies rolling through you that your cells pick up. Because the way we're built, we can derive energy from physical compounds. We can derive energy from photonic things, just from light, literally from acoustics, just from mobile things. Because mitochondria are piezoelectric.

[02:11:19] So the acoustic waves actually will drive them and they'll release energy. Or you can just derive it through the air just from frequencies and scaler waves and just EMF. And so when you sit in those things, it's the exact same thing. Like a BioCharger, it's this multi variate field effect happening on all these different frequencies, and your cells take what they need and ditch the rest. It just goes out.

[02:11:41] But your energy literally goes up. It's like wireless charging for a body. It literally is. That's why I do the little Likovsky chair, is I'll go in, and because I am, I know that I'm running myself kind of hard. So I'll go in, I'll crank the Likovsky chair up.

[02:11:56] Luke: Did you make that thing?

[02:11:57] Ian: No. A friend of mine in Washington state made it, Aaron Murakami. It's a great rig. Because it does. It literally charges you. It is a wireless charging system for biological systems.

[02:12:13] Luke: The BioCharger in particular, I knew that it was doing something. It wasn't just a bunch of bells and whistles. But again, just seeing empirical evidence to support that--

[02:12:24] Ian: It's very cool.

[02:12:25] Luke: For me, it makes it easier to buy in, and it also helps with my compliance. Because I could walk by that thing every day and I'm like, ah, I don't have 15 minutes to go sit in front of the BioCharger. But then I remember, oh shit, I remember what it does to my brain that I could see and prove, so then I start using it more. Or even with like a supplement. If I take your Neural RX and I'm like, holy shit, I just sat at my computer and crush work for five hours and didn't even blink. It encourages me to keep doing it.

[02:12:53] Ian: Actually, I don't think I've told anybody this yet. So one of the things that I'm going to release in about a month, probably by the time this podcast airs, it should be out already, is a line of quantum charge supplements.

[02:13:06] Luke: Oh, no shit.

[02:13:06] Ian: Yeah. So I'm using the Leela tech. Because I do quantum charging a couple of different ways because I figured out a few ways to do it, and this, it's going to be the Leela stuff because I've done the data and we've shown the difference in the compounds like vitamin C, zinc, D3, K2, magnesium, stuff like that. You can actually quantitatively and qualitatively show, wow, that's a huge difference just in reduction oxidation potential across a bunch of different metrics.

[02:13:36] Luke: Oh, wow.

[02:13:37] Ian: It's the same compound from the same vial. One is charged, one is not. And it looks like an entirely different compound because the efficacy is so much higher.

[02:13:45] Luke: Are you, in that case, able to measure the ORP before and after?

[02:13:50] Ian: Yeah, actually you can.

[02:13:51] Luke: Wow, that's cool. Again, that's another one of those ways to quantify something. That's why I love water. There's all kinds of cool shit you can do with water, and there are ways you can test it. You can look at the TDS, the ORP, the pH, and so on.

[02:14:09] Ian: Yeah. Gerald Pollack's work, man, I'm a huge fan of because homeboy really drilled down on the waterfront. It's very impressive to me actually.

[02:14:18] Luke: Oh, it's amazing. It's amazing. That guy should be sitting on a Nobel prize. 100%. It's shocking that he's not more wide. He's widely recognized within certain confines, but not worldwide.

[02:14:31] Ian: When I taught biochemistry, it was mostly the seniors at a university who were going off to med school, half of them. And the other half were just biochem majors. It was a required course for them. But I had two books that were required reading. One was a book called Life on the Edge, which is about quantum biology, because I thought, rather than teach these guys what everybody's been doing, I'm going to teach them where it's going to be when they're actually out in the world.

[02:14:56] And then the other was The Fourth Phase of Water, Gerald Pollack's book. Because to me it made you look at something that you're always around that you just take for granted, like, it's water. Of course, I understand water. And when you really get into it, you're like, shit, I obviously do not really understand water.

[02:15:12] There's so much more to it when you start looking at it, like, what an exclusion zone can do, and how does it do it, and how does signaling work in the body, and it's more of an ionic function and a pumping function. There are so many things that when I went through that personally for the first time, I was like, oh my god.

[02:15:30] Wow, bad on me for just assuming that I knew it because I had been around it the entire time. I had no clue. And so that's why it was required reading for my course, was just I wanted people to understand that. And I'm a huge fan, and he should be.

[02:15:44] Luke: Fascinating, fascinating work. He was on the show some time ago. We'll put the link to Jerry Pollack interview in the show notes as well. Did you ever by chance hear the episode I did last year in 2023 with Veda Austin? Show about water?

[02:16:00] Ian: Yes, I did. Man, the images she was taking.

[02:16:03] Luke: Mind-blowing. That, which I'm so grateful for for her, because she's such a beautiful person and such a brilliant scientist in her own right, in her own unique way, she was my top shared episode of 2023.

[02:16:21] Ian: Really?

[02:16:22] Luke: Yeah. And I had some big names on it.

[02:16:23] Ian: Wow, that's surprising.

[02:16:24] Luke: Isn't that cool?

[02:16:25] Ian: Yeah. I guess it kind of captured-- literally, we're made up mostly of water.

[02:16:31] Luke: Yeah.

[02:16:32] Ian: But that is actually surprising.

[02:16:34] Luke: It was meaningful to me because I had people that are much more widely known on the show. And I always having people on the show that aren't widely known or have never even been on a podcast before and they just have something really unique to offer. And she'd been on a few podcasts but definitely isn't a household name by any stretch even in these circles

[02:16:53] Ian: That's really interesting.

[02:16:54] Luke: And yeah, people shared the hell out of that, and I was like, man. And I remember it being just in the moment just having my mind blown. It was such a deep conversation.

[02:17:01] Ian: Her stuff, like Luc Montagnier, the Nobel laureate who worked with water, holy shit. You read Montagnier's stuff, truly mind blowing. That for me was like a complete paradigm shift when I read his stuff. I was like, okay, again. Obviously, I was missing it. It's funny to me, like, there are these things that we take for granted that are right in front of us the whole time that we just assume we understand, like water having memory.

[02:17:31] Well, yeah, of course, it does. It makes sense now because it's literally a stereoscopically stacked liquid crystalline structure. Yeah, so like any other LCD matrix, you can store data in it. It's not terribly surprising when you look at it from that perspective, but at first, you're like, it's water. You don't think about it.

[02:17:52] And then you reframe it. You're like, oh, wow. And then you look at Montagnier's work and you're like, holy shit. Not only can you store it, but you can play it back. Truly brilliant. As a scientist, the thing that impresses me about that is not so much what he did. It's having the mindset to even come up with that line of inquiry. Just fucking brilliant.

[02:18:13] Aside from the fact, had he not had a Nobel Prize already, people would have just written him off as a complete quack. And I think most of mainstream science did write him off as being that strange weird water guy who's a quack and also a Nobel Laureate. But his work, who comes up with an experiment like that? It's just brilliant.

[02:18:37] Luke: That's the cool thing about true scientists, is sometimes just the inquiry is really the brilliance regardless of what the outcome is. Just to have the insight to even ask the question to begin with, to even open up the inquiry like, hey, I wonder what if, and then you do the experiment and the result is almost like, yeah, okay, the result's fine, but how did you even think to look there? It's not even what you found necessarily.

[02:19:04] Ian: It's like plant medicine sometimes when you hear the stories about how tribal or "primitive" cultures have arrived at it. You're like, right. So what was the medicine? Usually you hear the same thing that the plants told us.

[02:19:18] Luke: I love that. I love that.

[02:19:19] Ian: Like, okay, cool.

[02:19:20] Luke: Yeah. I love that

[02:19:21] Ian: Good, the plants told you. Yeah. But a lot of times you think like, so why were you licking this toad? Explain to me the thought process behind grabbing a toad and going, you know, I think I'm going to lick this toad. [Inaudible].

[02:19:38] Luke: It's crazy. Before we go, while we're on the topic of water, so you guys shipped me some of this water today, super oxygenated water. And that caught my attention because I love water and I love oxygen. And so I was, of course, looking at the arts per million. Now, I have the Ophora water system here in the house, this thing called the Bio-Quantum machine, I think it's called.

[02:20:04] It makes hot and cold water and it's all filtered, and beautiful, and remineralized, and structured, and all that. But I think it's like--

[02:20:12] Ian: 10.

[02:20:13] Luke: Yeah, okay. 10 parts per million. Which may be what you get if you went up to a mountain spring or something and drink it right out of the source.

[02:20:20] Ian: If it's cold, yeah.

[02:20:21] Luke: Yeah. Bubbles of oxygen there. And that water really tastes delicious in our kitchen. It tastes like really good spring water out of the mountain. It's just got a great energy to it. So I look at this and I'm like, okay, it says seven times more oxygen than regular water. All right. What does that even mean? And then I look 50 parts per million. This is like drinking a little hyperbaric chamber or something. I'm like, what the hell.

[02:20:44] Ian: Yeah, it was actually just used at the NFL Combine. And it was very cool. Actually, the kids that were doing the Combine sent me-- I'll show you the video. They sent me a video with the water, and it was awesome.

[02:20:57] It's amazing to me, actually, what they can do like with an iPhone now. It was like a Nike commercial, but for the kids that were doing the Combine. But it's great because we did this with you downstairs. You put a pulse oximeter on and you already had your saturation levels in 99%.

[02:21:13] So that wasn't going up, but your pulse went from 59 to 53. So whatever the cardiac loading is, it takes the stress off. Because basically your heart is just trying to move oxygen to your cells. So in this case, your saturation was great. So it just took the load off of your cardiovascular system by virtue of dropping your pulse. And so for athletes, it's great because it's like having an inline bottle. You are drinking air in a can.

[02:21:42] Luke: Right. You see football players run over to the sidelines and put on the oxygen mask. Or even in concert sometimes you'll see performers do that. They run behind an amp and they're like--

[02:21:52] Ian: Yeah. Having done that before, this is an order of magnitude better. It's so much better.

[02:21:56] Luke: Really? See, I got to test it. I don't exercise that hard as we're discussing earlier, but I do have the Carol bike down there.

[02:22:04] Ian: Carol AI, man.

[02:22:05] Luke: Yeah. 15 minutes, it will whip your ass where you are panting for your dear life. So I want to get to that state and then chug one of these.

[02:22:12] Ian: Yeah. Hammer one out.

[02:22:13] Luke: I'll be able to tell? I'll be able to feel it.

[02:22:15] Ian: 100%, 100%. Yeah. Hammer one back and wait about 50-ish seconds. And when I did the same thing, the weirdest feeling, because I had never done it before, I just made this stuff, was I was panting and I downed it and I was still panting.

[02:22:31] And then I was like, and it just stopped. No labored breathing at all. And I was like, what the hell was that? Because I just never felt anything like that. But your body, it's efficient. It's like when it hits homeostasis again and it doesn't need to exert the energy to breathe because you suddenly have the oxygen, it literally just stops.

[02:22:51] Luke: That's so cool.

[02:22:53] Ian: Because I had never felt anything like that. Literally mid breath like, okay

[02:23:00] Luke: That's fun. Oh, I got to try--

[02:23:01] Ian: It's great though. This launches this summer, and so it'll be drinkinhale.com.

[02:23:07] Luke: Cool. Will it be available on the Wizard Sciences site?

[02:23:11] Ian: No, it'll be--

[02:23:11] Luke: It'll be its own.

[02:23:12] Ian: Yeah, yeah. It'll be its own thing.

[02:23:13] Luke: Okay. We'll put that in the show notes. drinkinhale.com? Okay. Even though the show will come out before summer, we'll put it in there for--

[02:23:20] Ian: Yeah. It's good stuff though.

[02:23:21] Luke: Retroactive listens, if you guys hear this after the summer, it'll be there.

[02:23:26] Ian: Yeah. I am actually a big fan. So that and the hydrogen water that we have at the lab that we drink, and those are great, man. Just slight modulations and like the different types of water that you consume, because everything's, of course, structured and all this stuff that I personally think is impactful.

[02:23:43] But you can change your biology so much. Hydrogen water is awesome. It's got whole signaling cascades that drop out an inflammatory response, and your energy levels go up. It's good stuff. And the oxygen for athletics, I always think of this more as like performance and the other is more recovery.

[02:24:03] I can make a case for this. If you drink this late at night, because I've had a bunch of people tell me this, they sleep incredibly well, which makes sense because your oxygen saturation goes up. So a lot of times people have apnea and things like that and they run into issues because they're literally in a state of oxygen deprivation. But yeah, I always think of this as more like performance.

[02:24:28] Luke: You know what would be sick is if somehow you could trick the TSA that this was like a medically necessary drink so you could break-- because it's way more than four ounces. This is 12 ounces. They're going to fly through the pre-check line, but man, I'm thinking like, oh God, on a long flights, this would be so epic. Just bring your blood saturation back up to 99 in a few seconds.

[02:24:57] Ian: That actually would be fantastic on those flights because you are completely being deprived when you're up there.

[02:25:02] Luke: I have smuggled the little hiker canisters on there.

[02:25:04] Ian: Have you really?

[02:25:05] Luke: Yeah, I've never been stopped, but then I'm like, ah. I always think maybe this time they're going to get me. And they're quite expensive. So I'm just like, ah, do I really want to drop like 60 bucks on these canisters and have TSA take them away? But I have taken them on and they've never taken them away because I get the smaller ones, not like the big ass.

[02:25:24] Ian: The oxygen bottle. That's the wheel behind the oxygen cart.

[02:25:27] Luke: But I think also I was-- I'm not that easily embarrassed, but it is weird if you're sitting next to someone and you're like-- I would dip down because I didn't want the stewardess to see me and get pissed and like, you can't have that.

[02:25:42] Ian: You'd have to have like the balloon where you're like [Inaudible].

[02:25:44] Luke: But I used to carry a pulse ox with me on the plane and try all kinds of different stuff. And I also figured out actually, to be fair, now that I think about it, I can't really do breath work because I don't want to freak people out or have them think I'm a terrorist or something. But I would play around with like just doing deep breathing, and I could bring my blood oxygen up in a few minutes of mellow breath work. And I was like, well, that's a lot cheaper than bringing the canisters. But then I either forget to do it or I don't want to weird people out.

[02:26:15] Ian: I think it would. Could you imagine doing like breath of fire next to somebody on an airplane? They'd be like, stewardess.

[02:26:21] Luke: I'm already such a train wreck on flights. I got my heating pad. You know a Robby? Yeah, I have my Therasage heating pad.

[02:26:34] Ian: Robby's awesome.

[02:26:36] Luke: I got my Blushield EMF thing plugged in if I have an outlet. What else? It's just ridiculous. All my supplements, because flying just wrecks me. So I do 50 things per flight to just feel halfway normal when I land. Luckily, Alyson is super chill. I have taken trips with partners in the past that found my whole operation to be really embarrassing and annoying because they feel embarrassed for me because they're with me and everyone's looking like, I got my fucking EMF hood on. It's just a whole ridiculous production. So I don't blame them for their embarrassment.

[02:27:15] Ian: Oh my God. That slays me.

[02:27:16] Luke: Yeah, it's really quite a spectacle, but you got to do what you got to do. I'm sitting there and other people are drinking cocktails, eating that crappy food and they seem to feel fine. I'm like, I don't know how people do it.

[02:27:29] Ian: We'll see how that plays out over time. And the other thing is, your body sorts for survival, not necessarily for performance. So those people, despite what they may or may not think, they're probably not doing their degree of acuity, any favors by virtue of imbibing their body with alcohol and then hammering it with glyphosate laden wheat, which is already inflammatory.

[02:27:51] It depends on what you're shooting for. You can survive it, like, I'm vegan. I eat only Cheetos and drink Coke. Okay, fair. Maybe you should set the bar slightly differently, but whatever. It's kind of like, what are you shooting for?

[02:28:07] Luke: That's true. I think that is very true because my bar for baseline is probably higher than your average person because there's been times where all the things I'm doing are working really well and I feel freaking amazing. So anything less than that is insufferable.

[02:28:21] Ian: Yeah. It's like an athlete. I work with a lot of Olympic athletes, and those guys, dude, they're specimens. They're working on such minuscule little bitty things. I'm like, oh my God, that's amazing. You're already at this level. And they're like, right. And they're looking for something that will, in the case of the pole vaulters, give them an extra centimeter.

[02:28:43] They're already jumping 20-ish feet. Like, okay, dude. Whatever. That half inch is going to make a big difference. But to them, it's a huge thing. Or wrestlers or whatever their particular thing is, they're looking for such minuscule little variations and gradations that it's a big deal.

[02:29:02] You're looking for performance at a different level. I am too. That's mentally why I'm constantly amping up my own mitochondria, is because I want to be humming along at a really freakish pace. I got a lot of stuff to do. The world is not short on problems. I don't expect at any point soon that either of us will run out of things that we can contribute to. Probably not in our lifetime.

[02:29:28] Luke: Is there anything new coming down the pike from Wizard Sciences that we should be aware of? I think I'm aware. You got the hair serum coming, the skin one. What about the thing you were telling Alyson for cats?

[02:29:43] Ian: Oh yeah.

[02:29:44] Luke: Is that out?

[02:29:45] Ian: No, it's not. It too. One of the things that I decided was, I literally have so many things on the shelf that are either curative or incredibly beneficial for lots of different things, but it's hard to get stuff out. So I devoted 2024.

[02:30:04] I was like, okay, I'm going to commit to getting a ton of stuff out. These things, it's great to have figured it out. Woohoo, gold star. But it doesn't really do a damn bit of good if it's sitting on my shelf and not actually helping anybody. And like the Derma, I just saw a testimonial that was awesome because the guy had had a skin condition for like a year, was having to take antihistamines, had itching, and within a week it was gone.

[02:30:31] Basically, it's just modulation of mitochondria and drop inflammatory response. It's same basic skill set, but applied to a different thing. So the feline stuff is same thing. Cats are obligate carnivores. Right now I have a product called Vortex which is for animals, but cats are obligate carnivores. So the profile that you want them to ingest is a little different. So I went back and retooled everything to be specific for cats. And so it's being tested right now. So I've [Inaudible].

[02:31:01] Luke: Does obligate carnivores and felines differ from canines? Because canines in the wild like wolves will eat some plants or tubers or something if they're around.

[02:31:11] Ian: Yeah, exactly.

[02:31:12] Luke: Oh, okay. But cats really will only eat meat?

[02:31:14] Ian: Cats need to be eating the meat. They have to eat meat.

[02:31:18] Luke: That's crazy.

[02:31:19] Ian: A dog can supplement on some things.

[02:31:19] Luke: That makes me so sad when you see people making their cats be vegan.

[02:31:23] Ian: Yeah, that's not a terribly natural thing.

[02:31:24] Luke: Brutal.

[02:31:25] Ian: Yeah, It's going to end poorly. It is actually. I suppose you could have a vegan great white, but I don't know how that would play out over time.

[02:31:37] Luke: It's a lot of spirulina. A lot of algae. Good luck with that.

[02:31:42] Ian: I like to think of him as a pseudo whale. They're just certain things that animals need, and we're in that mix too. But yeah, with cats, because they're obligate carnivores, they have to eat that stuff. So I figured, okay, I'm going to retool the animal stuff so that it's specific to them and more beneficial for them.

[02:32:00] And then the NMN supplement, and then the quantum charge supplements. And the reason I'm doing those is because it's like the frequency cards. You can imprint a frequency card with say vitamin C or something like that. And that's great. And it does make a difference, but you're still a physical creature.

[02:32:16] It's like my joke about imprinting a thing that says water. You still are probably going to have to hydrate a little. Unless you're at the point where it doesn't matter. And if you're at that point, no need to have this discussion. But ultimately, since you're in a body, you need certain vitamins and nutrients.

[02:32:33] And I figure if I can leverage the things that I know that actually make them better per unit volume, then you need less of a foreign substance to elicit the same response. So it's hitting that like sweet spot of the minimum effective dose with less load on your biology.

[02:32:48] Luke: Cool. Man, as always, great to catch up with you.

[02:32:52] Ian: Dude. Yeah, this was great, actually. Yeah, we would be doing the exact same thing if the cameras were not on and the mics weren't rolling.

[02:33:01] Luke: 100%. And those are the best episodes, when it doesn't feel like a podcast, when it's just like sharing ideas, sharing space. So you guys go check out wizard sciences.com, use the code LUKE, and thank you for joining me again. Great to see you.

[02:33:15] Ian: Much love. Yeah, it was great to see you.

[02:33:16] Luke: You too, brother.