[00:00:00] Josh: This is fucking special. Aaron, Alec, Luke, welcome. Welcome to the studio.

[00:00:04] Luke: Yeah, buddy.

[00:00:05] Josh: This is so dope.

[00:00:06] Aaron: Thanks for having us, bro.

[00:00:08] Josh: This came from us at the park, and I was like, who are some great minds that we can get together and just build a freaking fortress of freedom. Here we are. So I've learned so much from you. I'm down to learn from you. I've learned from you. Let's start. How do you guys define freedom? Freedom is my fucking highest value. It is why I do everything. It's why we bought land and dripping springs. Freedom of body. Freedom of mind. Freedom of spirit. There's so much to talk about. So you guys, just super stoked. Who wants to go first on freedom? How do you define freedom in your life?

[00:00:29] Luke: There's levels to the game. To me, the foundation of freedom is understanding who and what you really are first and foremost. To understand that you're a single point of consciousness that happens to be animating a body. And in order to do that, it requires an intellect. You have to have a brain. You have to have cognition. The body has instincts so that the body stays alive and is able to stay animated. And you have this ego structure that's there to make sure that all that works in harmony.

[00:01:12] But many of us live our lives not knowing that there's someone else in the witness observer perspective that we might call our soul or a higher self. That's actually the one that's in charge or should be, and that's where the freedom comes from, a lack of freedom as we start believing that we're only the body and that we're only the thoughts that we have and that our only awareness is based on our senses, and so we create our reality, hence enslavement out of our limited perception of what we see in the material world.

[00:01:41] So to me, the freedom is a daily practice of remembering who I really am, what I really am. And when I remember that, then areas in which I'm not free in the material world start to become not only really apparent, but they become really bothersome because my soul is going, man, you're a free-range slave. How are you going to get out of this?

[00:02:06] And then it's like the bodily sovereignty, medical sovereignty, monetary sovereignty, learning how to be free in a society of people in terms of my external life. But for me it all begins, and this is just driving over here, sitting here with you guys, just constantly, as best I can, building the practice of that omniscient awareness.

[00:02:32] There's a me that's watching the persona of Luke play the Luke game, the Luke role, and remembering that it's a role, and remembering that it's okay to play the role, otherwise I wouldn't be here in this body.

[00:02:44] Josh: It's a pretty fun role.

[00:02:46] Luke: But when I forget that I'm playing a role, then I start to take myself and the world at large too serious. And then I'm not able to be in the world and not of it. I become of the world and completely consumed by my perception.

[00:02:58] Aaron: We're all just souls playing roles, right?

[00:03:01] Luke: I like that.

[00:03:02] Josh: That's a good alliteration.

[00:03:02] Luke: That's good.

[00:03:02] Aaron: Your new t-shirt, bro.

[00:03:03] Josh: Oh, by the way, we're rocking Luke's merch. Drop the link, please.

[00:03:08] Luke: lukestoreymerch.com.

[00:03:09] Josh: Okay, y'all see this. Vitamin Deez.

[00:03:12] Luke: That's my wife's favorite.

[00:03:14] Josh: I love it. It's so cool.

[00:03:12] Luke: That was the first one she ordered. I do have one that says-- what does it say? It says, I don't have a soul, I am a soul, which is a great reminder to that point.

[00:03:22] Josh: I love that good stuff.

[00:03:24] Aaron: Healed people, heal people. That's what's up. And green too, color of the heart.

[00:03:29] Luke: Oh, interesting. I didn't even think about that. Well, they say, hurt people, hurt people, which has been the case in my life. When I was hurt, I definitely turned into someone that hurt other people. But when you begin the healing path and you make some progress, just your mere presence is healing to people.

[00:03:47] Alec: I have a lot of thoughts on that.

[00:03:50] Aaron: Hurting people is recognized as the absence of free will in someone, where loving people, healing people, is the presence of free will.

[00:03:58] Luke: Dope. So what about you guys? What's freedom?

[00:04:01] Josh: Yeah. Drop it.

[00:04:02] Alec: I think it's the pursuit of 100% self-ownership, 100% self-governance, 100% self-responsibility, and 100% authentic expression. And I don't think we ever reach that 100%, but it's the pursuit of it. And the best way to get to a full semblance of what freedom actually is is by peeling back all the things that don't represent freedom in mind, body, and spirit. So that's how view it.

[00:04:31] Luke: I like that, a process of subtraction rather than addition. Because in ultimate Reality, everyone already is free, but it's just that we're encumbered by falsehoods and false beliefs and perception that tricks us into thinking that we're not free.

[00:04:49] Alec: Dude, it all goes back to what you said, what we truly are, knowing who we truly are and what we truly are, that is. So all the things that are not representative of that need to be peeled back, and what you're left with is freedom. So again, it's not an adding. It's subtracting all of the falsehoods, and that's conditioned beliefs that have been impressed upon you. That's things that you've bought into about yourself based on past traumas, etc. But it's peeling back all those things. And then what you're left with is truth, is freedom, is love.

[00:05:26] Josh: Well, I don't have any limiting beliefs personally or any conditioning to get over. No, I have a lot. I feel like deep down it's this navigational source where it's like who do I want to spend my time with? What do I want to say no to? I think real freedom, real liberty is saying no to anything and anyone that I want to say no to. And the financial means that come with that, the spiritual awareness, the physical health, everything. I think it's really simplistic for me. I love what you're saying.

[00:05:52] I love what you're saying too, but at the core of this, it's like knowing and doing are very separate. So just because I know that I'm free, doesn't mean that I can be free unless I actually behave in that way. And then I have to develop the faculty to know that I'm free, to act that I'm free. And I think it just comes to saying no, much like Neo did in the matrix, where he just put his hand up.

[00:06:12] Much like we're going to talk about with common law. It's not about anger. It's not about fighting the system. It's just about putting your hand up with peace and just saying no. And then the bullets fall. And that movie's so powerful. I know you guys have watched Matrix probably 10 times at least.

[00:06:25] It's one of my favorites, but it's really like, okay, if I'm free, then I have the means and the awareness to actually say no to anything and anyone at any time that doesn't align with my freedom or what I actually want to be, or do, or behave like in my life. That's the bomb drop for me. I'm still figuring it out. I do not have it wired. But that's my North Star. That's really where I come from.

[00:06:46] Luke: You have a great grasp of boundaries as an act of self-love. You're a great boundary expander for me.

[00:06:55] Aaron: I would echo that.

[00:06:56] Josh: Thank you.

[00:06:56] Luke: Yeah. It's one of your strengths. It's something I've been working on since I was about five.

[00:07:01] Alec: Awareness is the key.

[00:07:04] Aaron: Mommy boundaries.

[00:07:05] Josh: I've learned so much from you as well, and I'm curious, like, what do you feel in your soul and your being that freedom actually is? How would you define it? How do you wear it? What is it for you?

[00:07:18] Aaron: When you were talking, you reminded me of the classic verse in the book of James that says faith without works is dead. And so it's the idea that, yeah, you can know freedom or understand you're free, but if your actions and behaviors don't demonstrate it, are you really free?

[00:07:31] The faith doesn't really translate if it's not an embodiment that demonstrates itself in your life. And interestingly enough, that was the big diversion and disagreement between James and the Apostles gospel of Christ and the Apostle Paul who hijacked Jesus's gospel, and he said, it's just about faith.

[00:07:48] It's just about confessing Jesus. Nothing else matters. And they were like, no, it's all about how your faith demonstrates itself in your actions. And so I would agree with that. I think freedom is an inner state of being that translates to how you show up in the world. And I would for sure agree with Luke's definition that freedom in a spiritual sense is knowing who you are.

[00:08:08] But what I really love to teach and practice myself is that freedom is the ability to be in my chosen state of being, regardless of the circumstances. And that takes a really deep level of embodiment, to know who you are on that level to where circumstances no longer dictate who you are in the present moment.

[00:08:28] And if anything, reflects the degradation of our society. It's that, that everything is now outsourced. Everybody in society depends on external systems for everything. And so the second that those systems want to take something away, all your freedoms are gone. So you never really had them because they never belonged to you in the first place. So on the spiritual and the physical, it's an identical mirror in that way.

[00:08:57] Alec: Could you say in short then, it's then knowing who you are and fully expressing who you are.

[00:09:01] Aaron: Being who you are, for sure.

[00:09:04] Luke: What you just described to me speaks to integrity, the piece about being in the same moral character and fortitude internally, regardless of what's going on in the external. That's always my North star. It's that thing you hear where you have someone who's really powerful and wealthy and they treat the waiter or the bellhop the same way they treat the CEO of the company that's an equal to them, right? It's a great demonstration of that. When someone's like the same person, regardless of venue.

[00:09:37] Aaron: That's freedom.

[00:09:37] Luke: Yeah.

[00:09:38] Josh: So I'm curious for you guys, like, what is a way that you've gotten over some type of shackle, maybe a mental shackle or a story that in your life just fucking drove you mad for years. I know you have had a path with addiction. We talked a little bit about--

[00:09:54] Luke: How much time do we have, Josh?

[00:09:38] Josh: I think we've actually talked about that a few times too. Alec, we talked a little bit at Luke's house, and you had shared that there was quite the story with you and your dad and your mom and the ways in which your mom was very spiritual. And then she got to this place where her spirituality didn't serve her anymore.

[00:10:11] I think that would be really powerful to talk about. And I think we could riff on that too, just our parental dynamics, which is essentially the amalgamation of our generational healing, but also how we navigate it as a fucking human in the 3D. There's a lot there. So yeah, lead us on that.

[00:10:27] Alec: I don't want to make this a six-part podcast series getting into all my family's stuff. But I grew up in a pretty chaotic, tumultuous environment. For anyone who knows my full story, they would definitely express that that's the case with me.

[00:10:42] And it's all relative because all of us have trauma to some degree, but my dad was very much repeating patterns of generational trauma and perpetuating, I hesitate to call it abuse now, especially because I've fully forgiven him of that, but there was a lot of like physical mental, verbal, emotional abuse, you could say, at that point in time.

[00:11:36] And then for my mom, there was a lot of neglect and a lot of enmeshment, and when my dad went to rehab when I was 14. I was the one holding my mom at night making sure that she was okay, setting my emotions aside, making my identity inextricably linked to my mom's state of being. So when my mom was feeling good, then I could feel safe. And if she wasn't feeling good, then I needed to fix my environment to make her feel good so that I could then feel good. So I was like the surrogate father and surrogate husband for my mom at age 13, 14.

[00:11:36] Luke: Have you been reading my diary? What is happening right now?

[00:11:42] Alec: Is that your story too?

[00:11:44] Luke: Yeah, all that.

[00:11:45] Aaron: In many ways, mine as well.

[00:11:48] Luke: That's wild. I've never heard you talk about it. I'm just like, you too? Okay.

[00:11:54] Josh: So how did you move through that?

[00:11:55] Alec: Yeah. This is going to sound cliche, but really learning to love myself because when I was younger, I felt really unworthy, and I still wrestle with that sometimes, unworthy, ashamed to be who I am. Feelings of shame and guilt arise within me quite a bit, but I learned to just simply feel it. I feel like people try to prescribe certain techniques and things to heal trauma, and I've done a lot of shadow work, childhood trauma healing, meditative reparenting, EFT, EMDR. I've done all the things.

[00:12:28] Josh: Have you done 5-MeO?

[00:12:30] Alec: I have not done 5-MeO.

[00:12:32] Josh: That's a whole different world.

[00:12:34] Luke: It's a different kind of therapy.

[00:12:36] Alec: I will say, for me, the most powerful thing that I've done to learn to love myself is just feel feelings as they arise. That's it. And just bring awareness to them and be authentic about it. If I'm feeling a little bit of shame, feel that feeling to completion as it arises.

[00:12:55] Don't try to stuff it down. Don't try to meditate and cope it away. Just feel it. And then it moves through you, and it's gone and has no power over you, and you realize you are not those things. I am not shame. I am just feeling this feeling of shame that is a fleeting feeling that will be gone as soon as I feel it to completion.

[00:13:12] And then again, just like the peeling back that I talked about earlier, what you're left with is genuine self-love. That's what you're left with. You're left with freedom. You're left with full authentic expression at that point.

[00:13:25] Josh: This is why there's hundreds, maybe even millions of self-love books out there. If it was easy, everybody would do it. Self-love ain't a light switch that you can flick on a Wednesday. I think you even said earlier, embodiment takes time. So the time that it took, five years, 10 years, for you to get to this point-- because you're low 30s. You're 33?

[00:13:43] Alec: 31.

[00:13:44] Josh: 31. Bro, you're ahead. You're ahead of the game.

[00:13:46] Alec: Thanks, bro. I appreciate that. But I don't feel like I am.

[00:13:50] Luke: Alec's dad and me are the same age.

[00:13:53] Aaron: No way.

[00:13:55] Alec: The same exact age. That's what I was going to say to bring this up. The other huge, huge, huge piece is forgiveness of others, genuine forgiveness. When it comes to all the things that happened when I was younger, I've reached a point of total forgiveness for my dad and for my mom, and it's interesting that I had already reached that place of forgiveness irrespective of whether my dad ever apologized or not.

[00:14:20] And there was a period where for three and a half years we didn't talk, and then one day he reached out to me in 2021 and was crying and apologized for everything that happened when I was younger. And it's when I had released that need, made it so my level of health, my level of worthiness, my level of freedom was relying on someone outside of me because that's what it was previous.

[00:14:44] In order for me to feel good, I need my dad to do this. Once I released that and just came into genuine forgiveness, which required that I worked through all the anger, all the shame, the guilt, the rage, the disappointment, all those feelings, and got to a genuine place of compassion forgiveness, seeing that he was just someone who didn't have the tools that were required and was just doing the best that he could with what he had at that time.

[00:15:09] Got to that genuine place of forgiveness, and I got to that myself without needing someone else outside of me to impress it upon me. And once I got to that place, my reality oriented in a way that reflected how I became internally. And that's when my dad reached out to me, and I was like, this is just crazy. And we've had an incredible relationship that we've been building ever since. And we're closer than we've ever been in my entire life.

[00:15:30] Josh: It's inspiring to watch you and him. So we've been at these meetings to learn about common law, which I know the three of you are a little bit more, maybe much more advanced than I am. And I think about what you said because I've heard this from many people on the podcast, when you change your state of being, the universe reorganizes itself, almost like recapitulates itself around you. And you actually just said that in a way that was so articulate and so touching. I wonder like, how did your mom react to it?

[00:15:57] Because the mother wound is deep. Mark Wolynn says, the mother wound is the initial wound, and then the father wound happens after that. But the mother wound's deep for all of us. I wonder how that played out into this aspect of healing generational trauma. We can't make our parents behave differently. It's be great if we could. It would be a lot fucking easier. But how did that play out with your mom?

[00:16:18] Alec: Yeah, I would say that the best way to articulate this is my mom is still on a path of learning to forgive and is still struggling to forgive, and that reflects in her life quite a bit, in my opinion, not to project my thoughts onto what's going on with her. We don't really speak, and it's because I have a relationship with my dad.

[00:16:38] My mom no longer speaks with me. So she's still struggling to forgive. And then what I've looked at that as is it's an invitation for me to, again, learn self-love and self-compassion. Because like having my mom reject me two and a half years ago because I have a relationship with my dad brought about a lot of shame and guilt inside of me, especially because I was the surrogate father and surrogate husband, and my identity was inextricably linked to her for some time.

[00:17:05] And watching her through multiple suicide attempts on psych meds, watching her walk through the house at 2:00 AM, seeing apparitions and have akathisia where she's just shaking like this, that was a good part of my childhood. And so having had that point in my life with that identity inextricably linked to my mom, being rejected by her was super painful. And then that brought about, like I said, a lot of shame and guilt.

[00:17:34] But once I flipped it and looked at it as an opportunity and for me to learn to love myself and that there's no one coming to save me, and my level of health, my level of self-expression, my level of authenticity, my level of overall well-being is not reliant on my mother. That was just another up leveling for me, and that's what it's become. And it's me learning to do it here first, and then my reality reflects accordingly.

[00:17:57] Josh: And still honoring the sadness. It's not like you're totally free of sadness. I'm sure it comes in waves, but I love that you said you just feel it.

[00:18:08] Alec: It's like my mom, man.

[00:18:10] Josh: It's your mom. Yeah.

[00:18:11] Alec: It's two and a half years of not having a relationship with my mom. That's tough. And I would be lying if I said that that was not hard. It is hard. But at the same time, I have compassion for her. Whatever it is. I can speculate all day, her inability to take full ownership of her own stuff, and she's still putting her health level on someone outside of her.

[00:18:36] And I have compassion for that, and that's just not the choice that I make. I choose to forgive. And what I've seen in expressing authentic forgiveness is that my dad is now doing more of the work. And that's not because of me, but if I can represent someone who is embodying forgiveness and be that in his life, then he's willing to do-- I mean, you guys have met my dad.

[00:19:00] Aaron: Partially is though, man. Forgiveness really is a catalyst for your dad. I know you and your dad really well, and I think you both are such a shining example of the power of forgiveness to heal and to expand relationships. We started talking about freedom a minute ago, and going back to the idea that freedom is the ability to be in my chosen state of being regardless of the other or the circumstance, you can see why judgments, and bitterness, and grievances are such an attack upon myself because maybe another definition of freedom would be the ability to live in perfect obedience to natural laws, divine laws, because the moment that I violate one of God's laws, that law has to violate me in equal measure immediately.

[00:19:46] The second I have a negative thought, an attack thought against somebody else, there's a destructive influence in my body at that moment, in my mind, and it continues to grow the longer I hold on to it, and so forgiveness represents the ultimate declaration of freedom that I'm absolving the karmic ties I create with everyone I've judged and resented and not forgiven. And so I'm taking my freedom back when I forgive. And it doesn't matter if they forgive. If I forgive them, I absolve my end of the karmic tie. And that's what freedom is.

[00:20:18] Alec: Totally agree by the way, but I think the trap that I've found myself in personally is at times where I've tried to jump to forgiveness based on, this is how I should be. This is how the world expects me to be without feeling the feelings along the line of that.

[00:20:36] I think it's important that we feel those feelings authentically to full expression. And I think what people get stuck in the anger, stuck in the resentment, stuck in those, what we consider "negative emotions" is simply because they're not allowing themselves to feel it to completion. That's why people get stuck in perpetual, just subtle levels or higher levels of anger because they don't feel the anger to completion.

[00:20:59] Aaron: You can't forgive what you don't feel.

[00:21:01] Alec: Exactly.

[00:21:02] Luke: Emotional bypassing.

[00:21:03] Alec: Yeah, absolutely.

[00:21:04] Luke: Have you ever read the book Silently Seduced?

[00:21:09] Alec: My wife has recommended that to me quite a bit.

[00:21:12] Josh: What's it about?

[00:21:13] Luke: It's about emotional incest. Some of what Alec was alluding to when a parent, usually the opposite gender parent, essentially turns the kid into a surrogate spouse, which happens a lot when a man or woman has been really deeply hurt in a relationship and they close their heart to dating and ever marrying again, and things like that. Oftentimes after a bitter divorce or dysfunctional or painful relationship, and so they'll become best friends with their kid. When I hear someone say like, yeah, my mom's my best friend, I'm like, oh, you better look into that.

[00:21:54] Aaron: Super common.

[00:21:55] Luke: Yeah, it's really, really meaningful book, and there's so much emotional harm, just like a physical incest kind of thing would be because it stunts your growth. And in the case of being a boy who had that dynamic of a relationship with a mother, it's very emasculating.

[00:22:13] Josh: Yeah. I've been through that personally. My mom was manic bipolar, so I have all these memories of her in the room for days. My brother and I would make each other cereal. And by the way, I love you, mom. She was, as we've echoed here, just doing the best she could with the level of consciousness she had.

[00:22:27] Aaron: Everybody is.

[00:22:28] Josh: I'm not demonizing my mom, but it was so profound that it weaved its way into every relationship with a woman that I ever had. And even with Carrie Michelle, we're five years in, and I'm still feeling the residue leave my system, leave my being. So I don't know if the work ever stops.

[00:22:44] I think freedom is this ongoing path where God, universe, creator brings, us these experiences to make us feel or a false awareness that we aren't free, but we actually still are. This is why I'm glad on your shirts you don't have anything that says good vibes only. That is not your brand. Promise me you don't have a shirt that says good vibes only.

[00:23:05] Luke: You can only get to the good vibes if you're willing to trudge through the bad vibes.

[00:23:09] Alec: They're catalysts. All those all those experiences. All those "negative experiences" are catalysts. I wish I was wearing one of my favorite shirts. It says grateful for it all. And that is legitimately one of my favorite shirts because I truly mean that. I look back on the seemingly "negative experiences" in my life, and I am genuinely so grateful for them.

[00:23:27] When I'm in them, a little bit harder to find gratitude for them, but I look back, and I'm like, wow, that really traumatic thing that I went to led me to this feeling or experience that I'm feeling now, or led me to this knowledge, or led me to this pathway, and it's beautiful. I'm legitimately grateful for all of them.

[00:23:47] Josh: I wonder how that plays out with you and your dad. I was at your wedding. He had a very unique wedding where he said, hey guys, we're signing this paper in the middle of the wedding ceremony. But your dad officiated the wedding. He was a preacher or a pastor?

[00:24:00] Alec: Pastor.

[00:24:00] Josh: So there's a huge interplay of you actually finding the true definition of God through your father's definition of God. There's some nuance there. I wonder if you could share that because our relationship with God is part of the Pentagon. Physical, mental, emotional, spiritual, financial. Spiritual is big. If we don't have a connection to something outside of ourselves, it's almost impossible to be free, in my opinion.

[00:24:23] Aaron: Yeah. It's been an interesting journey with my dad because we have always been very close. And my dad has always been a man after God's heart. And so from birth, I just idolized my father and wanted to be just like him. But because he had such a heart for God and such incredible integrity, he's the kind of guy that would not take a penny from a coke machine if he found it there. He'd put it back.

[00:24:46] Just like always preached integrity to me. So I was very blessed that I didn't have to grow up in a pastor's household that was extremely rigid and dogmatic and put all these rules and limitations on me. My dad grew up as a Nazarene pastor's kid, and so his parents were very much like that. He had to have his hair slicked back. Wear a white t-shirt tucked in, same outfit every day. Couldn't deviate. All these crazy rules. Couldn't interact with girls, watch tv, go to swimming pools.

[00:25:13] Josh: Damn.

[00:25:15] Luke: No swimming pool?

[00:25:16] Alec: Why no swimming pool?

[00:25:17] Aaron: Mixed bathing.

[00:25:18] Luke: Oh, wow.

[00:25:18] Aaron: It's very sexual.

[00:25:20] Luke: Let's be honest. When you're a prepubescent boy, it is pretty sexual.

[00:25:25] Aaron: There's some truth to it. There's some truth to it.

[00:25:26] Luke: That's the first time you've seen a female form that reveals.

[00:25:31] Josh: Yeah, things start to activate.

[00:25:32] Aaron: Oh, it's funny you say that because I was told these things growing up, and I looked at them as like, oh, that's just so over the top. And then as you get older and you experience more life, I look back on some of those things now, and I'm like, maybe grandma and grandpa weren't so wrong after all.

[00:25:47] The TV, they called it the devil's box. They said, you can't watch the devil's box. And my whole life, I'm like, oh, that's so silly. 100%, dude. The devil's box. Perfect description.

[00:25:58] Luke: And rock and roll. Not to interrupt you, but you just reminded me in the '80s how there was the PMRC. There was all this censorship of heavy metal bands and stuff. They went after Ozzy and Twisted Sister and called it satanic music, which I don't believe it was based on their messaging. It was just marketing or something.

[00:26:14] But when you think about the consciousness of certain music, like gangster rap or thrash, death metal, you listen to that when you're in the state I doubt any of us four listen to that, no judgment on people that do, but I used to, and now if I go back and listen to that music, it's just like, ugh. It's repugnant to me. It's so dark. So maybe there is some negative energy in some movies, and TV, and music, and for sure different art.

[00:26:40] Josh: I feel like it's a way to keep people in that wounded state, especially gangster rap. It's like fuck bitches, get money, blah blah. It's almost like a rewounding of what's familiar, and it allows them to get out some of that anger through the music, people that blast.

[00:26:54] Look at these guys that have like 15 subwoofers in their car, and they'll roll up next to me on the freeway, and my windows are closed, and I'm turned off by it. I can't even imagine what low vibrational soup they're fucking swimming in with that music. But go back to your dad.

[00:27:10] Aaron: Yeah, so much I want to say on that topic, but we'll put a bookmark.

[00:27:13] Josh: We'll sidebar. Yeah.

[00:27:13] Aaron: So just wrap it up, I had to be true to my path when I was disenfranchised from Christianity at 23 and was just like, hey, guys, I don't believe in this version of God anymore. I can't do this with you guys anymore. I'm out. And it took me many years to make that leap of faith because I literally didn't know anybody who wasn't Christian. Every friend, every family member, all Christians.

[00:27:32] And you know what happens when you leave the cult. You're ostracized. So I'm like, do I want to blow up my entire life, lose every friendship, every family member, and start from scratch? That was a big pill to swallow for a while. But the internal conflict and the suffering just kept accruing until I was like, I'll do whatever it takes to get rid of this feeling.

[00:27:5] So I blew up my life, announced my exit from churchianity, and moved back to Oklahoma and started my life over again and started spiritual seeking outside of Christianity, and that was hard for my dad. I was probably a little reckless with my Facebook posts and debates at that time.

[00:28:14] He had a lot of friends come to him being like, your son, he's a heretic now. He's a backslider. You got to put him in order again. Come on. He's making you look bad. And so that more than anything was hard for my dad to have all of his pastor friends point their fingers at me. But in the long run, my parents have been so abused by the church, and it's no different than anything else.

[00:28:34] Any corporation, there's always corruption. There's people trying to overthrow one another. It's a hierarchy, king of the hill battle. They've been lied about. They've been backstabbed by friends, accused of horrible things that weren't true. So that was a blessing in disguise from my parents that all that suffering also disenfranchised them from the church.

[00:28:57] And it rings Heralds back to Jesus's statement of a tree by its fruit. A good tree can't bear bad fruit. Period. So all these people that are lying, cheating on their wives, laundering money from the church, something must be wrong with our belief system. And they've, I think, subconsciously, learned that over the decades of abuse they've suffered in the church.

[00:29:18] So interestingly enough, my mom was quicker to jump on board with what I was teaching and sharing. My dad, a little bit slower, but that makes sense to me. He's a pastor. As far as I can tell, he's pretty much on board with everything I talk about. We have amazing conversations.

[00:29:35] He's no longer a pastor. He's really into oneness teachings now, doesn't believe in hell, stuff I never thought I would see my dad say or believe in my life. So it just goes to show man that God works in mysterious ways.

[00:29:52] Josh: So much mystery. I feel like God could sit right here. There's another seat for mystery at the table.

[00:29:58] Luke: It's crazy how much we three have in common, and Josh too, to some degree. I know Josh more so than I know you two. You just reminded me the other day, I wish I could create the accurate context for who my dad is and who he was. Raised in Colorado, hunting, fishing, Republican, just tough customer.

[00:30:20] Aaron: Man's man.

[00:30:22] Luke: Yeah, just hardcore tough customer. And beautiful person, but was never open minded to spirituality, and thinks to anyone that ever smoked weed is a, I don't know what he called them. They smoke dope. They're a hippie, just the whole thing. We talked the other day.

[00:30:39] I said, what's going on dad? He said, oh man, things are going really well. I went and did-- what did he call it? He goes, I've been working with the pendulum. Yeah, he's like doing the pendulum, equivalent of muscle testing on different ideas and things like that.

[00:30:56] And I was like, okay, did I call the wrong number? And then he goes, yeah. And then I went to see a channel, and she's been telling me all this stuff about all my relatives talking to me from the other side, and it all checks out. It's just so wild when someone has an open mind, what's possible.

[00:31:17] I think it started a couple years ago. I turned him on to Joe Dispenza stuff. And he went to a Joe Dispenza retreat with myself and my wife. And he only missed one out of the seven days, and they're two, four, five-hour meditations, man. And he did that. And then a few months after that, he went and started doing some ketamine therapy. And he's just committed to his healing path, but the pendulum and the channeling shit, I was like, what? It's just incredible.

[00:31:46] Aaron: Whatever gets you in, I guess.

[00:31:47] Luke: Yeah, it's incredible. You just never know like what someone's capable of when they really have a desire to be free.

[00:31:55] Josh: Wait. Much like Alec's way of being influenced Derek, how much of your way of being influenced your dad?

[00:32:04] Luke: Well, humbly, I would say probably quite a bit because of where I came from as, which is where he came from, but the years that I struggle with addiction and got sober. I turned him on to the 12-step program, and he went there for some time, even though he had quit drinking when he was 30, around the time I was born or so.

[00:32:27] And he took that path for a while. And then turned him on to David Hawkins. So I think it's been a mutual teaching and learning relationship. I call him and ask him for advice on things all the time. We have our areas of expertise. Finances, not so much mine. He's great at that.

[00:32:50] Having prudence in the way he operates in the world, and there's a lot that he teaches me about integrity, very integrous, very honest man, just a very inspirable man. So he has so many great attributes, but as far as influencing, yeah, I think more than me telling him about anything, he's observed the success that I've had in my life through all of the effort that I've put into healing and awakening.

[00:33:07] Alec: This is what I was thinking the whole time. First, as he was talking about how he became disenfranchised from the church, it's because they're just sharing ideas, but they're not embodying the love of Christ. And then with you, your dad seemed to have come on board, based on what I'm hearing, largely because of what he's seeing in you. And I relate everything back to the nature of reality and who and what we are. And Eileen McKusick's work, I've been sharing this a lot.

[00:33:41] I shared it a lot during Confluence, the event that we just came from. A strong coherent field will overtake and entrain a weakened coherent field. And this is measurable and observable per Eileen McKusick's work. And what that means is the more that we actually embody these ideas, this wisdom, and express it, the more we're representing strong, coherent fields that overtake and entrain, bring into coherence, the weak, incoherent fields.

[00:34:08] And that's why when you started embodying these new teachings, representing that more than just, as you said, just sharing it on Facebook aggressively, you started embodying it, your dad, who was a pastor, came around. Your dad, who you never thought would come around to this stuff, came around.

[00:34:25] And apply that to life in general, especially as it relates to the freedom community, holistic health, all the things that are going on right now. The more that we can represent strong, coherent fields embodying something, the more that we bring other people into coherence around us.

[00:34:40] Luke: It also explains a lot of why 12-step meetings have the miraculous impact that they can have, which I love to talk about. And you've been in David Hawkins stuff. I'm sure you've heard him talk about this. But the coherent field of unconditional love of people who were in bondage, who were suffering, who have found their own version of a higher power together, and that are ingratiated to help other people because they have the empathy for that level of pain, it's incredible.

[00:35:10] It's just one example, you don't have to be an alcoholic to have that experience. It can happen in churches and spiritual groups, and four of us sitting here. But I've always tripped on how-- it's what happened for me, but even watching more dramatic cases where you have a little meeting in a church basement somewhere with like shitty coffee, little folding chairs. Not the greatest vibe.

[00:35:34] Alec: Fluorescent lights.

[00:35:34] Luke: Fluorescent lights. Anyone that's ever been in a meeting, they're usually not in high end places because the organization doesn't make any money. It's built to be permanently just breaking even. There's no monetary incentive for that organization. But to watch like, and I saw this hundreds, if not thousands of times, someone comes in, homeless person living on the streets for years, just completely lost.

[00:35:57] They come in. People love them, give them some of that shitty coffee in a Dixie cup. They start hanging around a little bit, and fast forward a year, they got a job, they cleaned themselves up, got an apartment, they're getting married and having a baby, and they're a productive member of society.

[00:36:13] It's like, what did that? Part of it is that entrainment, part of it is the teachings and the practices that one needs to follow in order to sustain that. But just the initial transformation is wild.

[00:36:29] Aaron: Well, to your last statement, it was actually, ironically, the Facebook debates that I was engaged in that really started to move the needle for my dad because he told me once that he'd be reading all these debates, and I had really well-known pastors coming on to try to take me down and stuff, and I was saying basically the gospel that Christians preach is not the gospel that Jesus preached.

[00:36:50] Jesus never said worship me. I'm your savior. I'm going to die for your sins. My blood will atone for your sins. Nothing of the sort. And when you get in these debates with Christians, they get very defensive, and they resort to name calling very quickly. So my dad's reading these debates, and he said I was agreeing with your opponent's ideas, but your approach and attitude towards them, I could not deny was more Christlike.

[00:37:15] I would often point out to people like, I just want to reflect this to you that you've called me this, this, this, and I would list all the names they've called me, and I've called you my brother, my friend. I've said nothing but nice things to you. Which one of us has better fruits of Christ, do you think?

[00:37:26] And that was something I did often because I think that someone who's in hypocrisy needs to be shown their hypocrisy. Otherwise, everything else increases their hypocrisy. And I don't mean like, you're a hypocrite, but actually reflect something back to them that forces them to cognize the contradictions right in their beliefs and behaviors.

[00:37:49] So I would love to offer those reflections to Christians of like, hey, you may have all the ideas right, but look at the way you're behaving. And Jesus said, a tree by its fruit. And my dad said, I couldn't deny that you were becoming more Christlike with your new beliefs.

[00:38:03] And then over the years of watching Youtube videos, he had a huge hesitancy for what I was saying, but he said one day, I saw a video of yours come up. I watched like two seconds of it, and you used like new age terms, and I was like, oh I can't stand to hear my son talk like this, and he turned it off, and he said he felt the holy spirit say to him "Scott, watch the video with an open mind without your resistance to these words and labels, and feel what your son is saying."

[00:38:30] And says, so I watched it, and by the end of the video, I'm crying, tears down my face. I'm seeing the real message. I got past the labels. So it all goes back to what we're saying here that if you don't embody the energy of the solution in your energy field, you can't teach people. You can't transform people because words are just symbols of symbols. They point to something beyond themselves.

[00:38:54] So if we have words, but not embodiment, we're not doing anybody any good. And that goes the same with freedom. You can't just talk about freedom and live like a slave and expect to make disciples and help people get free. That's why so much of what we're all doing in our lives, the embodiment of common law and sovereignty, we feel it as like an inner responsibility. I can't help anybody unless I get free from the matrix myself. And it translates to everything else. Spirituality, family, it's all the same thing.

[00:39:25] Alec: Another thing that's really interesting, going back to Eileen's work as it relates to that too, you talking about how you can't help others until you help yourself first, both Eileen's work and Veda Austin's work have shown that a strong, coherent field, like I said, will overtake and entrain a weak and coherent one, but what is important there is that it's a strong, coherent field first.

[00:39:46] It must be brought into resonance itself first. And then Veda Austin's work with water, she's shown that you take tap water and set it next to spring water--

[00:39:55] Aaron: I love that experiment.

[00:39:57] Alec: The spring water brings into coherence the tap water. But she's also shown that tap water or other types of water must heal themselves first before they can impact other bodies of water. So it requires that we do the work to heal ourselves first and get ourselves right before we can impact other people.

[00:40:16] Josh: It makes sense. We're 80, 90% water, something like that. So as I'm speaking right now, I'm vibrating through my voice box the water in my body, the water in all of your bodies. So someone who has a strong coherent field like, I'm sure you felt this at Confluence, which by the way, confluence definition is water meeting a head.

[00:40:37] Luke: Really? I didn't know that.

[00:40:36] Josh: Yeah, confluence is where two rivers come together and they mix, like in the Amazon. And so I wonder, from a confluence standpoint, where are we in society as far as spiritual maturation? I've been thinking about this a lot because it's easy for somebody that maybe is hearing the conversation, absorbing what we're saying for the first time.

[00:40:57] And they might be in a totally incoherent state. So they may not be able to absorb the wisdom that's being shared. There's a humility aspect to this where none of us are wearing a white robe floating on top of a mountain.

[00:41:12] Luke: I have a white robe underneath.

[00:41:13] Josh: Well, maybe Luke does.

[00:41:14] Luke: Touching my mala beads under the table, by the way, not those beads.

[00:41:20] Aaron: He's just been chanting the whole time.

[00:41:22] Josh: So in comes the humility.

[00:41:23] Luke: You can't hear me, but in my mind, I'm saying, ram, ram, ram.

[00:41:30] Josh: But this is something that I've been thinking about a lot because in our world of, I guess you could say, media, conscious media, podcasting, there's a lot of people where when I hear them speak, they have the million followers, and they have everything on paper that looks good. But then when I hear them speak, there's something in my field of coherence that doesn't absorb.

[00:41:47] It's like my soul, my body, my field won't allow me to absorb what they're sharing because maybe it's the Redox system that Zach Bush talks about. I don't know. There's something within me, like a knowingness, that knows what they're sharing isn't true, or they haven't embodied it yet.

[00:42:01] Aaron: It isn't embodied.

[00:42:02] Luke: This is what I was speaking to with your boundaries. I think one of your most powerful gifts, it's not only the boundaries, where you're willing to say no, but you have a really high level of discernment, that tuning that you have of calibrating situations, people, ideas, podcasts, whatever it is that you're looking at.

[00:42:23] It's a real gift to be able to have that. Most humans, I would say, including myself, can be very easily duped by falsehood. Because it's a shiny thing. It's like, ooh, this sounds interesting. And we can get led down some paths. I think you and my wife, Alyson, are probably the two people I know who's bullshit detectors are the most finely tuned.

[00:42:46] Josh: It could go the other way though.

[00:42:48] Luke: Because sometimes I'll even think you're a little overly skeptical. Sometimes we'll be in a group, and you don't hide it. Josh will be sitting there, and he's like--

[00:42:59] Aaron: Just analyzing people.

[00:43:00] Josh: Full on hyper vigilance.

[00:43:03] Luke: I've seen you do this a number of times where you're sitting there and it's like, you're not even trying to hide it. You're just kind of squinting going, I don't know, I'm going to wait and see, wait and see. I think if you combine that with open mindedness, you might be met with a little question and a little doubt in someone or something. And sometimes it's going to be on point, sometimes not.

[00:43:27] But if you have that discernment also with an open mind where you're willing to feel into how much of your resistance is your own stuff versus the empirical evidence of the level of truth or integrity that you're witnessing or experiencing. I really admire you in that as someone who-- I've had to work a lot on my kind of naivete and gullibility.

[00:43:49] Aaron: Same.

[00:43:54] Luke: It's like the shadow side of empathy.

[00:43:57] Aaron: Our heart chakra are too big, bro.

[00:43:58] Luke: Yeah, I'm like super empathy, super compassion. And I think all those years I spent in addiction recovery, I've seen people that are in really dark places, borderline possession type stuff. And I could see the light way, way, way back in the back of their eye, and it's like, if they just have a modicum of willingness and humility, I've seen people come back from the dead, literally.

[00:44:23] Which is beautiful to be able to have that, to look at someone and have that forgiveness for them and empathy for them and understanding, and that open heart and the love that I just have for everyone, regardless of even how evil they might be.

[00:44:38] The shadow side of that is giving people too much of the benefit of the doubt and opening myself up to vulnerability, which wasn't as catastrophic when I was single, but that's really come to light in my marriage where I'm the gatekeeper of our union and the gatekeeper of our temple, our home.

[00:44:57] And one of the great gifts I've learned from my wife who, like you, has incredible discernment is like, don't be gullible. It's cool. Be loving. But also, the funny thing, I want to say this one more thing, something I've been working on lately is because my heart is really open, when I look in someone's eyes, it's like, I just see them, who's behind it.

[00:45:23] And that sometimes creates a dynamic wherein boundaries start to get eroded because the person for whom I'm opening my heart and showing that love might misinterpret that as something other than what it is. You know what I'm saying? It's difficult to articulate, but it has to do with that boundary.

[00:45:44] So it's almost like I'm invited to learn how to modulate my heart without closing it, but without just blindly and naively opening it to the whole world and creating a vulnerability for myself, or for my wife in that case, or for it's actually not loving to allow someone else to cross a boundary. Boundaries are actually an act of love for all parties involved. Even if I'm setting the boundary for you, it's an act of love.

[00:46:18] It's a mature love rather than just like, oh, we all sing kumbaya and everyone's okay. We're all unconditionally lovable. Yes, and people have a lot of character defects. And if someone's unconscious, they can be very dangerous.

[00:46:32] Josh: Before you go, because I can feel you wanting to go, the shadow side for me has been hypervigilance. So I have hypervigilance at times, even challenging you on terrain and virus, which we're going to get into because we get to flesh that out. So I grew up in an environment where my dad was intellectually powerful, and I had to learn how to survive by being intellectual.

[00:46:55] And so my biggest work in this world is actually to embody peace because I know that really only true power comes from peace. And so when I ask questions or when I dig in, I'm aware of that residue of the hypervigilance from my childhood conditioning. And if I had to veer on one side, I think what's even gotten me to this place where we get to sit at this table together has been me seeing people for who they are and paradoxically also noticing if they have a true heart-based intention or not.

[00:47:25] Do I have it wired? Fuck no. I would say I probably always veer towards the side of hypervigilance as to which you speak. But that's gotten me to this place and so my maturation is being called forth to have a more open heart and to be more open minded to virus and terrain. Even the way that water teaches water.

[00:47:44] Luke: Can I blow my snot on you?

[00:47:46] Josh: So that's there.

[00:47:48] Luke: See what happens.

[00:47:52] Alec: Wait, what did you mean by can I blow my snot on you?

[00:47:48] Luke: Can we share a handkerchief?

[00:47:54] Josh: Please, please. Wipe it on the beads. But please, counter that.

[00:47:59] Aaron: Yeah. Well, what we're talking about here is the balance of wisdom and love. And that's where all true power comes from, is the confluence of wisdom and love or masculine feminine. There's an interesting passage I was reminded of when you were talking, Luke, from the Law of One where Ra is describing how positive and negative beings interact in the universe at different density levels and negatively polarized entities, dark beings like to come to third density planets like this one because this density is what they call the density of the choosing or the choice where every soul is here to decide, do I want the dark path or the light path?

[00:48:37] And you keep reincarnating here until you make that choice. And so they say this is the feeding ground for negative entities because they like to take advantage of the neophyte. And so when a third density being is coming into their world chosen path of the light, there's a moment of time where they're very easy to take advantage of because you're trying to emerge into love and activate the fourth center, which is the heart chakra.

[00:49:02] So you're trying to become a being of love and love everyone and forgive everyone. And the negative beings are like, ah, this is a little entryway for me because this being wants to accept everyone. So there's some open doors there. And so it's not until we infuse our love with wisdom, which you could say is discernment that we become truly powerful.

[00:49:22] Because now our love can be used in the ways we want it to be used and not be taken advantage of anymore by the darkness, which that's all the darkness can do is take advantage of things. It has no power in and of itself other than the power it takes from others. So I'd to answer your initial question. I see our planet dividing from light and dark right now because we're in this huge planetary upgrade, this great awakening.

[00:49:47] I think it really kicked off in 2012 And I had an interesting experience this week. I went to a comedy show, a Shane Gillis show at the H-E-B center in Cedar Park. My wife and I walk in there. And I just spend all my time with people like you. I'm in conscious community all the time, and I'm teaching, and that's it.

[00:50:08] I don't really go out into the matrix very often. And it was such a wake-up call, man, to be in that energy and that environment and remember like, oh, this is where the vast majority of people still live. we're waiting in line, this 300-person line, and we're listening to the guys in front of us talking, and this guy's like, yeah, I popped a half an Adderall at 4:30 and then a full Adderall at 7:00, and then I had four shots of espresso at 9:00.

[00:50:34] And then I did this and that, and he's describing his day and what he has to do to get through his work day just to have his night out with the boys and just living to fight another day.

[00:50:46] Luke: To be able to go pound 16 beers at the--

[00:50:48] Aaron: Exactly, bro. I walk into this H-E-B center, and everywhere I'm looking, everyone has a 16-ounce beer can. I go into the bathroom, and every guy in the urinals is chugging beer, and everyone has this numbed out dissociated look on their face. And it just hit me like, oh, everyone here wants to dissociate from life.

[00:51:07] That's why they come to these events to drink and be with their friends. They want to forget about their life because they're plugged into the matrix. It's so painful. They can barely afford to live. And I think we're just at this nexus point in our planet where there's a line of demarcation being drawn because our planet, according to the law of one, has graduated to the fourth density positive, which requires a 51% or greater service to others orientation.

[00:51:32] So 51% of the people on the planet at least have to be more loving than not for the planet to graduate. So apparently, our planet just barely made that graduation point, but there's a ton of negative karma on our planet right now that needs to be healed and purged over the next few centuries, probably.

[00:51:50] And it seems to me like when this happens, probably on every planet in the universe, source intelligence creates this really strong dividing line between those who've chosen the light and those who maybe haven't made their choice yet, don't know that there is a choice yet, and those who have made the choice for darkness. Everyone in that group doesn't belong on the new earth.

[00:52:10] So gradually, they're going to have to phase out of this planet, and that just means like when their incarnation ends, they can't come back to this planet again. They have to go to another planet to continue their life cycle because this planet has chosen the path of the light.

[00:52:25] And that's just the way I see our society right now, is that it's very harsh to be in our world as a being of light because it's supposed to be. We're supposed to feel averse to these systems and to disconnect from them and build our own communities because the old world is crumbling. It's been transcended at this point, and we're moving into a new earth. So there's going to be some flames going up for a while, if that makes sense.

[00:52:48] Alec: What I think, the way I relate love and wisdom is that love is what we are. Love is what those people are, and wisdom is what is required by us and tell those people figure out that love is what they are.

[00:53:01] You have to have the wisdom in place because you have to be able to set boundaries with people who don't realize who and what they are. And that goes for other people who are still on the journey of figuring out who and what they are. That's why boundary is required.

[00:53:13] Luke: And also, let's just remember we're better than all those people. So there's that. No, just kidding. Aaron, you're the resident biblical scholar. I've, at various times in my life, tried to read the Bible, and I can't get past the languaging. So many years ago, someone turned me on to the writer Emmet Fox. He was a writer in the New Thought Movement.

[00:53:37] And in fact, it was a mentor of mine early in my sobriety, and we would talk a lot about the history of Alcoholics Anonymous and stuff. And before they had their own book, which people call The Big Book, they had these groups called the Oxford groups, and they were kind of a non-denominational Christian group, and two of the main books they would read were the Varieties of Religious Experience by William James and Sermon on the Mount by Emmet Fox. Emmet Fox wrote a lot of books, but that's probably his most famous.

[00:54:04] Aaron: I've read that one.

[00:54:07] Luke: So he gave me this book, Sermon on the Mount, and because I was so illiterate about the Bible, I didn't know it had anything to do with the Bible because I wasn't familiar with that term. And then once you start getting into the book, you realize that's what it is, so he Trojan horsed that message to me.

[00:54:27] And his teachings are beautiful because he had a knack for removing metaphor and dogma from biblical teachings and just got down to the core principles of what he believed that Jesus was actually saying. It's very Vedic in a way.

[00:54:44] It's about love. It's about your thoughts. Emmet Fox was all about the power of the mind. But anyway, I bring that up just to share with people like there's some beautiful teachings there, but one of my favorite Emmet Fox teachings is his definition of wisdom is a perfect blend of intelligence and love.

[00:55:02] Aaron: That's great.

[00:55:04] Luke: And like, man, that's so good. And it speaks to this thread that we've been on.

[00:55:10] Aaron: I've heard him call it applied intelligence.

[00:55:13] Luke: Oh, nice. Nice.

[00:55:14] Alec: I just want to answer your original question real quick because I have a lot of thoughts on that too. I was asked by Kelly Brogan recently what I think about the thinking crisis that we're in, of which I agree, we're in a thinking crisis, and you could say that's the bifurcation that Aaron's referring to that we're all touching on.

[00:55:28] And if I had to categorize it in three ways, it's empiricism, which is knowing of the body; rationalism, which is knowing of the mind; and mysticism, which is knowing of the spirit. And I don't think that in this life we can ever fully know anything at all with our limited perception and senses and this illusion of duality.

[00:55:49] So Empiricism, you employ something like the scientific method in order to falsify hypotheses in order to point out, again, going back to what I said earlier, peel away what is clearly not true. Rationalism, you employ logical fallacies. So you look at people who are making arguments for why they think what they think or why their position is what it is.

[00:56:09] And you employ logical fallacies to be able to snuff out what is clearly not a logical, coherent position. So that's knowing of the mind. And it's, again, peeling away what is not true. And then mysticism is knowing of the spirit, and that requires that you will be a clear vessel, a strong, coherent field in order to know, just sense that someone is BS-ing.

[00:56:27] Just like you're talking about with some of these podcasts, you just get the vibe that they're not telling the truth or they're coming with mal intention. And then the two ways that I think, especially speaking to, I'd imagine your audience is like mine largely in the health freedom/holistic health movement, where I think that many of us still need to be wary not to fall into traps is being conditioned to believe that there is something outside of you coming to get you that you need to fear that you are powerless against and/or being conditioned to believe that there is someone outside of you coming to save you, that you need to rally behind, that you need to outsource your power to.

[00:57:06] Luke: Wait, Trump's not coming to save us?

[00:57:08] Aaron: I was just thinking he is. Come on.

[00:57:11] Josh: We're not going to make America great again?

[00:57:13] Alec: I think those are the two hooks where people in this movement are hooked into buying into something that is fundamentally still disempowering and not leading them back to themselves. Because I think that is the whole journey, is trying to figure out this reality based on empiricism, rationalism, and mysticism, if I had to, again, categorize it, which there's a lot of overlap between the three. But just being on the pursuit of trying to figure this place out, trying to know with childlike curiosity. That's the whole journey of this experience in life.

[00:57:46] Josh: I was feeling that when you were sharing, Jesus would put children in the room when he was lecturing because children had an open heart and an open mind. And so I learned stuff from my son all the time. We just talked about this last week on your podcast.

[00:57:57] My son is so pure. He's with what is. He doesn't have the conscious unconscious filters that we have developed over life because of trauma and things that have occurred. What was really interesting in what you were sharing is you talked about 51%. The code in police doctrine for someone that's insane is 51-50.

[00:58:20] So I wonder the similarity there. If we're at a tipping point of 51% of the population that the 50% might think are insane. But we're really just waking up to the truth.

[00:57:32] Aaron: Well, it goes back to the coherent field, incoherent field. It's as if the universe is waiting for a planet to reach even just the slightest coherent field, 51% or more to say, okay, this planet has chosen the light path. Now we'll move them onto the next level of their evolution.

[00:58:49] And interestingly enough, it takes a planet a long time to actually make that 51% grade. We've seen that on our planet. How long have we wandered in this sinkhole of indifference? Not really choosing the light, not fully choosing darkness, but just stuck in the middle. Coherence is not easily earned, even 51%.

[00:59:11] Luke: That 51 thing also aligns with David Hawkins' work how he would calibrate the levels of consciousness of humanity in different countries and everything. The book Truth Vs. Falsehood does a really great job of-- everything from the rolling stones to buddha. It's all in there

[00:59:28] But he talked about at various times in his lectures how there were, I think at one point in one of the lectures, say, eight human beings alive on the planet in their bodies that calibrate over 800, which is way past enlightenment.

[00:59:43] At that level, you really don't have to stay here, so most of them don't. They're just like poof. They just turn into fairy dust or whatever. But the way he explained it was in the tipping point that say you have eight enlightened beings on the planet, some of whom aren't even known publicly. It could be like your janitor or whatever. They're just low key.

[01:00:04] That the power of those eight people that are over 800 is exponentially more powerful than the other 8 billion people who are under 200, the level of integrity. And that's the interesting about thing about consciousness than the level of love, is that love has so much more power than those energy fields that lack love. So that aligns with the tipping point of the 51-50%.

[01:00:27] Because it's like, what is keeping our planet from completely imploding right now? Because when we look out through a certain lens, it's so dark. And it's like, well, how is it not just devolving into savagery and outright slavery? We're in a free-range slavery tax system, which we can talk about, where very few people are actually free in terms of the way that they live their lives.

[01:00:52] But why isn't it even worse? If you go back in history, as dark as it seems now, at least now it's covert slavery. At least now the population's being decimated by a fairly innocuous bio weapon rather than just Viking hordes coming in and raping and pillaging your shit.

[01:01:12] Josh: It's a subtler slavery.

[01:01:14] Luke: Yeah. It's trippy. So if you look back, because you think right now, wow, it's so dark, but we have come a long way from the raping and pillaging to slavery in so many different countries of so many different cultures. And you can see the scale gradually climb, but where we are, it still seems quite barbaric, but it's much better than it was 10,000 years ago, for example, in one perspective.

[01:01:37] It must be because of what you're describing, that the collective consciousness of the species of humanity is ever so gradually rising. And then the tide rises all those boats.

[01:01:52] Aaron: Yes. It's such an interesting point, man, because Hawkins talks about that in Power Vs Force, I think, how much power those positively polarized beings produce compared to the negatively polarized beings. I think David Hawkins says something like someone who calibrates at 500, which is the level of love, that means you're fully living from the heart chakra level.

[01:02:14] One person calibrating at that level is producing as much energy and consciousness as, I think it's 600,000, it might be a million, people under the 200 line. So that's why it looks so dark on our planet because we have these light beings, like ourselves even, just anchoring the planet down.

[01:02:32] But every light being on the planet is equivalent to maybe thousands, millions of beings who are under that 200 mark, and so yeah, it looks like almost everyone in the world is still living in the darkness. And it's true, but on an energetic or frequential level, there is more light than dark on our planet.

[01:02:51] And so you can see how the evolution of our planet could just start shifting overnight if people keep waking up and really ascending their consciousness. It would only take a few hundred thousand people reaching the 500 level to just overwhelm the planet with light and expose the shadows like overnight.

[01:03:08] Luke: That's going to basically happen for anyone that listens to this podcast.

[01:03:11] Josh: Yeah, they're feeling the infusion.

[01:03:16] Luke: I'm joking, but it's true. Hold that thought. It's one of the things I think that's so cool about independent media, despite all the censorship and all this, like, a, some people like us that are on the path and we're learning, we've learned a few things, we can pass it along.

[01:03:31] We can speak freely and have long-form conversations like this that are as public as we can make them. Whatever reach we can cultivate, they're going to have. And listening to stuff like we're talking about is 100% the basis of my awakening, my healing.

[01:03:49] Back in the day, there were these cases with cassettes in them, and I was listening to Stuart Wilde, and Wayne Dyer, and Deepak Chopra, a bunch of different teachers, and to reprogram my mind, I would just listen to those. And I still do this too, podcast and Hawkins's lectures and all kinds of things. I would all day long when I had a job in LA where I was driving. I would just reprogram myself. Basically, 24/7. I would even sleep with them on. And then they graduated to CD booklets with like 12-part CD. And then podcast came out. It was like, oh shit.

[01:04:26] Aaron: It's way more readily available.

[01:04:27] Josh: Podcasting to change in the world.

[01:04:28] Luke: The amount of information, the message that is needed to transform our individual lives and our collective consciousness as a species, it's all right there, and it's 99% free. It's crazy.

[01:04:42] Alec: This speaks directly to what I was going to bring up to the crazy mind fuck surrounding all of what's going on on earth right now is that overwhelmingly the people who are still "enslaved" are enslaved by their own conditioned beliefs. That is overwhelmingly the case. You look at it, as an example, everything that happened over the last four years with COVID. COVID, for those who don't know my word, Convid.

[01:05:12] Luke: By the way, I think I might have invented the word Convid because I never heard anyone say it. And now everyone calls it that. It could be a 100th monkey thing where we all thought of it at the same time, but I would still like to take credit for it.

[01:05:22] Alec: I'll make sure people give you credit.

[01:05:25] Luke: I would still like to take credit for it.

[01:05:25] Aaron: New t-shirt, I invented Convid.

[01:05:28] Josh: #convid.

[01:05:29] Alec: But you think about what happened over the last four years, everyone's pointing to what they did to us. And my answer to that is always, had everyone who authentically wanted to say no just said no and continued on with their life, which didn't require any belligerence, didn't require hostility, didn't require any of that stuff, just say no and continue on with your life as you please, there is nothing that would have happened.

[01:05:54] There's absolutely zero things that could have been done "to us." It was by our own conditioned beliefs first. And likewise, people when I share something like that, they'll say sentiments like that as it relates to voting, let's say, or political "solutions". People will say, well, then what's your solution to this? I'm like, you're missing the entire point It's for you to dissolve your own condition beliefs and you to cultivate your own solution. That's the point.

[01:06:24] Luke: Right. They're still trying to outsource it to you because you're the one that's pointing out like, hey, what we're doing is not working.

[01:06:29] Alec: Right, exactly.

[01:06:29] Aaron: You think you're a new savior? No, dude.

[01:06:34] Luke: This is so good because then now I'm, again, deflecting my responsibility to create the world that I want to participate in to you the guy who's doubting the way we're doing it. Wow, that's cool.

[01:06:43] Aaron: Part of us taking our power back is to say they did to us what we let them do to us.

[01:06:49] Alec: Right.

[01:06:29] Josh: I remember we had this beautiful meeting at Luke's house, and Brother Truth was there, which we'll link that in the show notes, and he said, everything could change if Beyonce just threw out a tweet. Think about how many people she could touch. But she's in bondage. She's in slavery to her overlords. And it really points to the next segment of this podcast, which is--

[01:07:11] Luke: Here we go. You go with Beyonce, it's getting deep, bro.

[01:07:14] Josh: Well, she sold out to Pepsi. She's slaying in Pepsi.

[01:07:15] Luke: She might have sold that to someone past that point.

[01:07:16] Josh: 50 million. Or the cabal or whoever you want to describe it as. But the confluence of where we are now is really this slavery to money. And I can think about my own money wound. I remember there was a time in my life where I would actually say something like this, rich people are fucking evil. I remember myself saying that.

[01:07:37] Aaron: I had my liberal days too.

[01:07:39] Josh: Grown up in California at 40 years ago, San Diego, California, a lot of money.

[01:07:44] Alec: Yeah, I was a Bernie guy to some degree.

[01:07:46] Aaron: Me too, bro. Bernie 2016.

[01:07:49] Alec: I never voted though. I've never voted. Never.

[01:07:51] Josh: I'm jealous.

[01:07:52] Alec: Okay. Sorry. Go ahead.

[01:07:53] Josh: Shut up. We'll talk about that. So the pain body, to quote Eckhart Tolle, that's still rippling, even I notice it at times with myself when I'll interview like a Dan Martell who's got 100 million dollars in the bank, feeling into his heart going past my own hypervigilance.

[01:08:07] The money wound on our planet is massive, and it's massive for a reason. It's a manufactured reason, but we are co-creators in that manufacturing. I guess maybe the most educated person in the room, would you guys agree, would be Alec to talk about common law? You guys have unique wisdom that I'd love you to share, but I'm just beginning the journey.

[01:08:27] Alec: I wouldn't say that.

[01:08:28] Luke: Can I share one little thing on the abundance and wealth piece that you touched on? Dude, this is so huge. In one of the many ceremonies in which I've had some beautiful awakenings, I was feeling into limiting beliefs around money. It occurred to me in that moment that the only reason poor people are poor is because they view wealthy people as a different type of person.

[01:09:00] Absent of the resentment, and jealousy, and envy, and all of that, that definitely fuels it. But I could see how in my life, and I grew up with a, I don't want to say poor mom, but she waited tables. We lived in apartments. We didn't have a lot of money. And my dad was pretty wealthy at least in contrast.

[01:09:18] And I mostly grew up with her, and there was some animosity between the two of them. She and I viewed rich people, especially rich men, as bad and evil. And I'm not blaming my mom for this because I assumed this idea that I don't want to be like them, therefore, I'm going to stay poor. And if I ever get a dollar in my pocket, I'm going to spend it as quick as it got there. So I'm never accumulating any wealth.

[01:09:46] Aaron: What a psyop!

[01:09:46] Luke: Because if you're wealthy, you're inherently selfish, greedy. You don't care about other people. It's such a huge thing. So I took that basic idea, and I've run it by a number of friends of mine who are exceedingly wealthy, just this idea like, do you think what makes the difference between rich people and poor people is just that rich people believe that they can be rich and that there's nothing wrong with it? And to a man, all of them have said absolutely

[01:10:13] And it also explains part of the reason for generational wealth. Because a lot of wealthy families don't spoil their kids. They might have a trust fund or something, but they make the kids go to college, or in their keep, start their own company or whatever I think generational wealth is less about the inheritance and more about being indoctrinated into a family system and a belief system that it's easy to be rich.

[01:10:34] And that there's nothing wrong with being rich. That is the crux of it. And I've asked many of my super rich friends that, and they're like, 100%. That's the whole key. I go, how did you get rich? They go, I just never believed that I couldn't. You know what I mean? It's that easy? This is something I'm still working on because I still have a lot of that programming of just like, I don't know, I don't want to be one of those guys with the nice car and the nice house and be ostentatious and pretentious.

[01:11:05] Even though I'm not that way, it's like, I don't want other people to view me that way, therefore I'll keep myself in the middle-class box because those people are bad. It's crazy. It's a crazy mind virus. I just wanted to share that.

[01:11:17] Josh: It's so good. There's an unconscious layer too, where it's like, oh, if I make more money than my dad, then I don't have that connection with him about rich people are evil. Or if I make more money than my mom or my friends, then I'll lose my friends.

[01:11:30] It's an unconscious identity piece, to which you're speaking of. And I feel like the only way out is through. I think we've heard that fucking adage so much, but what is the through? I believe it's common law. I believe common law is the through that we're all wanting and desiring on a very deep level.

[01:11:47] Luke: Beautiful segue, Josh. You're such a good host.

[01:11:51] Alec: You're very good at what you do, Josh. So I would not consider myself the most knowledgeable person at this table.

[01:12:00] Aaron: That's okay. We all do.

[01:12:02] Josh: You're up there, bro.

[01:12:06] Alec: As it pertains to finances, let's say credit, the mindset shift, and I can only speak to my experience in the United States, but this largely applies with every other country on the earth, every other location on the earth, that when you see a homeless dude walking on the street who thinks that he has no money, the reality is that he has hundreds of millions of dollars of credit sitting in either one account or various accounts somewhere that is actually his that he has been conditioned to believe is not his.

[01:12:46] Maybe he doesn't even have the awareness that it exists. And that's probably the more accurate way to describe it. He doesn't have the awareness that it even exists. That mindset shift that the way the current financial banking legal system and the intersection between all those things is set up literally requires us shift your mindset to understand that we are the source of credit in this reality.

[01:13:18] That the whole system is only able to continue doing what it does because of us. And I think a lot of people will look at that and then say, yeah, they're exploiting us. I don't discount that, but the reality is, once you become aware of that, that the system requires us in order to generate credit and keep itself afloat, so to speak, that you can go through a series of processes and take that credit back and use it for what you want to do.

[01:13:51] That's a huge mindset shift, and it's understanding that we are all abundant and we all have hundreds of millions if not more than that in credit sitting somewhere in accounts that are rightfully ours.

[01:14:03] Luke: And one of the things that makes that a reality is that we don't have or use money. As defined in law, money is gold and silver coins. Period. You can look that up.

[01:14:13] Alec: We don't use money.

[01:14:14] Luke: And we don't use that. So what are we using? We're using debt. People know about the Federal Reserve and fiat currency that they create money out of nothing, but as I'm learning about this, and I'm definitely a newbie, it's not that they create money out of nothing. They create money off our social security number and our birth certificate.

[01:14:33] Alec: Of the future labor interest deposit that is what our birth certificate and social security number represents. Social security number is like an EIN for that account essentially. And then anytime we sign a banking document or a government document, that is then made into a security that is traded on the Fidelity Stock Exchange.

[01:14:49] In England, you can pull down the CUSIP and see how much money it's accrued, but the whole point is that all goes back to our NAME, which is a pseudo person that they have set up that they have tripped us into thinking represents us as the living man or the living woman.

[01:15:05] That is not us, but we are actually the ones who are in control of those funds if we go through a series of processes to revoke the contractual relationships that we've gotten ourselves into, our parents got us into with the government.

[01:15:20] Luke: It's a duality of identity. We're born and our parents sign our birth certificate, usually our mom. They create this trust account under that birth certificate. They create a micro corporation that is a subsidiary or employee, AKA slave of the corporation called the United States located in the district of Columbia.

[01:15:46] When we start getting ID, we got our social security card, we go get our first job at Pizza Hut, and we sign that I-9 and we say, we are a US citizen, and we start to buy into the income tax game and all of that, then for the rest of our lives, unless we hear someone like you talk about it, we think that that NAME on every bill we get, in every government document that we get, we think that's us.

[01:16:12] The fact is none of us listening or none of us in this room have ever gotten a bill. The corporation that was created on your behalf really to benefit you in a way, if you look at it that way, is the one that gets the bills. So part of the common law journey and the correction of status, which I'm sure both of you could probably speak to in greater detail and accuracy, it's almost as if you become the attorney acting on behalf of that corporation.

[01:16:36] Just like I have an LLC. It's like, I know I'm not that LLC. Mine's called LUKE STOREY INC. I know that that's a fictitious entity. It's on paper. It doesn't have any light. It doesn't breathe. It doesn't bleed.

[01:16:50] Josh: It even says fictitious business name.

[01:16:50] Luke: Thank you. And so I don't have any problem understanding that I'm the living breathing Luke Storey and that that document that I have from the state of Texas or the secretary of state or whatever that says LUKE STOREY INC. is not me. But if no one told me this, I would still think I'm the other fictitious entity that is that corporation called LUKE STOREY name. It's crazy.

[01:17:15] If someone can just get that, it changes your whole life. I think even if you don't do anything with that information, just understanding the way the system has-- and I don't even blame the system. There's deception there, but it's not that we've been lied to it's with lies of commission. It's more just lies of omission.

[01:17:35] It's like the legalese and the languaging that's used is just like, ah, don't bother to sign here, sign there, sign here, sign there. Next thing you know, you've signed your whole life into all of these contractual agreements that you unknowingly entered into, and you certainly didn't know the terms of them.

[01:17:51] So back to the self-love, the process of becoming free in the material world, which is really a spiritual freedom from a meta perspective, is just going back and reverting or nullifying all of the contracts that we've unknowingly signed into without understanding the ramifications and the context of those agreements. It's crazy, dude. Yeah. It's wild.

[01:18:16] Aaron: It's such a perfect analogy of the matrix. It couldn't be more perfect, that everything literally is an illusion. Nothing is as it appears to be. That's the society we live in. You said you've never been given a bill. Not only that, no one has ever loaned you money ever. That's mind blowing to consider.

[01:18:34] Alec: Loaning your own credit.

[01:18:36] Aaron: Yeah. You've given your credit to everyone else, and then they've loaned it back to you pretending like it was their credit. It's all a lie. It's all an illusion. And so what's interesting to me is we talked about wealthy people, and then there's this now illusion of wealth because there isn't money.

[01:18:49] It's all credit that's created out of nowhere on a bank ledger somewhere. It's all imaginary. Then what is a wealthy man? It's a man who he's wealthy, and everybody else agrees and plays along with him. He doesn't actually have anything of true value. He has credit in an imaginary bank account that he uses to buy things with.

[01:19:08] And when he buys a home with it, the person says, I'll take your made up, imaginary fake money. Here's your house. It's truly mind blowing how deep the matrix goes. And so I love the spiritual parallels, especially of common law, that you were talking, Luke, earlier about being the observer of Luke, the story of Luke, ironically. You're watching that.

[01:19:29] Josh: Good connection.

[01:19:30] Aaron: Luke gives a story.

[01:19:33] Josh: A storyteller, bro.

[01:19:34] Aaron: So who's watching the story of Luke. Well, that's you and your fictitious entity. It's just like enlightenment. Enlightenment says you're identified with a false self. And enlightenment is just the removing of that false identity and the accepting of who you've always been, the observer, pure consciousness.

[01:19:53] And that's how you have to break out of the matrix as well, is to say, I've never been this fictitious corporate entity, the all-caps name. That's not who I am. I'm the living, breathing flesh and blood man or woman who is the agent of that entity. There's a line in a Course in Miracles I love that says all creation is extension. Because you can only create out of what you have, who you are, what you are. And so Luke Storey creates Luke Story Inc. So that's your extension.

[01:20:22] It's part of you, but you've mistaken it for the totality of you, and then the darkness takes advantage of that ignorance and enslaves you with your own extension. That's what the legal fiction is. It's an extension of you that they fool you into believing you are. You sign all those documents and agreements. Yes, yes, I'm this all-caps name. And then they own you by way of your own extension. So the spiritual parallels are fascinating to me.

[01:20:38] Luke: Well said.

[01:20:38] Josh: Just going to take a breath right there. So yeah, the path to liberation and freedom in this construct of 3d reality in human form is actually just claiming that I am a sovereign being. Now, I'm not saying that's easy. Just because it's simple, it doesn't mean it's easy to execute.

[01:20:58] Alec: Don't claim you're a sovereign citizen. But yes. In principle, yes.

[01:21:05] Josh: Let's talk about that next. And Brother Truth has touched upon this, and maybe we all in certain ways have touched upon this. It's actually just believing the embodiment that one already is free, and then doing the work to make that real here in this construct. That's essentially what I'm hearing from everyone here at this table.

[01:21:24] Luke: Yeah, it's like what Aaron's saying of the disidentification of the false self or the superficial self, of the ego, the intellect, the persona, where your soul or higher self is the agent who's managing what makes you, you. And there's a direct parallel to that.

[01:21:42] The process of becoming free in the material and financial and legislative world is disidentifying from the fictitious version of you that's a fucking piece of paper with some numbers on it somewhere. So it's like learning how to operate in the world, knowing that you can actually use that just like we can use the avatar of the body and the mind and the persona and the emotions and all the energies that's within a human being.

[01:22:06] There's a lot there that the soul can use for a higher purpose. And there's also a lot that I can use, or any of us can use, using that fictitious entity for a higher purpose in the material plane.

[01:22:19] Josh: We can play in both worlds.

[01:22:20] Luke: Yeah.

[01:22:22] Josh: So why are we not supposed to say that we're sovereign?

[01:22:25] Alec: No. Sovereign citizen.

[01:22:27] Josh: What's that all about?

[01:22:28] Alec: Because citizen is fundamentally a slave. Sovereign is a king. You can't be a king slave. That's why. Sovereign citizen. A lot of people will look at stuff that we're sharing here, someone like us, and say, oh, that's one of those sovereign citizen types, and it's a complete misunderstanding. You didn't say that, though. You said sovereign being.

[01:22:43] Josh: Sovereign being. Because I've been feeling this when we've been meeting and learning, is this why the movement is culminating now? We're at the 51% point, and so common law has nothing to do with sovereign citizenship. It has everything to do with what, exactly?

[01:22:57] Alec: Who we truly are. That's what it has to do with, who we truly are. I always go back to peeling back the layers of what we are not. That's like where all my focus is. I've said it multiple times during this, and it's like, again, we are not this all-caps name. That's not me. And once you understand that, you understand that it's like a monopoly piece, and you can use it accordingly to play monopoly, which is this game, which is these interactions with the system, as we call it. So yeah, that's the way that I look at it. It's just being a man. It's being a man in this reality. That's it.

[01:23:36] Luke: And claiming ownership over that corporation. It's like you can't just take Luke Storey Inc and do whatever you want with it. So why would I give agency over the corporation that's my birth certificate, social security number, all caps name? Why would I give agency over that to a third party?

[01:23:56] What? I didn't know that that's what I was doing my whole life. And then as I'm starting to learn, and again, I'm an infant in this understanding, but I'm starting to get the meta perspective of it, I think.

[01:24:09] Alec: It's the most important piece though.

[01:24:10] Luke: I wouldn't turn over agency of the corporation that I created to do business. And there's some liability protection and things that having a corporation gives you. It's great. But I don't think I'm the corporation, a, and I'm not letting anyone else control it. It's my shit. It's my company.

[01:24:27] Well, so is the fictitious version of me that was created a few days after I was born. But I've just never known that. Someone else has been capitalizing on it, making money from it, enslaving with it, taxing me with it, pretending like they're loaning me money when they're actually not.

[01:24:40] I'm loaning it to myself, and then I'm paying interest on it. The whole thing to me is about self-responsibility. And the more responsibility I can claim for myself, the less I feel like a victim. There's a direct correlation. How victimized I feel by the world and the circumstances of my life are in direct correlation to how much responsibility I'm willing to assume for my own path and my own freedom, my own actions, my own feelings, my own thoughts. The more of that that I can claim back, the more impervious I am to whatever's going on out there in the world.

[01:25:16] Alec: Right. And you see how it always comes back to the conditioning that they are doing this to us. It's that we were unaware to some degree they obfuscated. They lied by omission, and things like this, of course. And they may have even coerced us, but they didn't force us to do anything.

[01:25:33] And once we recognize that, it's like, oh, I am pretty much 100% in control of this. I just need to express that. I need to embody that. And once you do it, from what I've seen across the board for people who do it, they will leave you alone. They'll leave you alone.

[01:25:48] Josh: Oh, yeah. There's one really big piece to this, and that is, I come in peace. That's the big one that I've heard from our mutual friend, Alex, who is connected to someone that's been in this world for 20-plus years who's a grandmaster. And by the way y'all, disclaimer, once you hear this you can't unhear it.

[01:26:08] Josh: Once you get on this path--

[01:26:13] Aaron: You're getting red filled.

[01:26:13] Josh: Once you go down this path of truth, there's no way out. And would you want to go back?

[01:26:13] Alec: I would say that, and then also when you see the success stories of which he and I, and all of us at now at this point, once you see the people who've been doing this for an extended period of time and have multiple lines of success in this space, you realize that this actually is the case.

[01:26:27] Aaron: We have to embody it to teach others.

[01:26:29] Alec: Exactly. Sorry, I didn't mean to interrupt on that.

[01:26:32] Josh: No.

[01:26:33] Aaron: Did you have more?

[01:26:34] Josh: No, we're good. Please.

[01:26:37] Aaron: So this is the way that the game is played. I call the darkness the negative polarity for convenience. The negative polarity everywhere in the universe, but let's just say on our planet, they can only control with two basic mechanisms, which is money and language.

[01:26:51] And that's how they take our powers, that they use language to trick us, omission, etc. And then they weaponize money as a means to enslave us, which is called usury, getting people in debt, and then making them your debt slave. And so that's all that has happened.

[01:27:05] We haven't actually lost any power. We've just been tricked and deceived through the use of language and money that we don't know these corporations exist and stuff. So it's like when COVID happened. Again, they didn't hold anybody down and make them get the jab. So that's how a lot of them, these medical corporations and stuff are winning their court cases.

[01:27:28] Josh: They almost did though. Look at these nurses, firefighters that would lose their fucking job if they did it.

[01:27:33] Alec: But I will say this though. Who was I talking to? I spoke at Firefighters 4 Freedom there. They're rallying in downtown Los Angeles in 2021. I don't know if it was them or someone else. It was someone who they themselves ended up being fired. I will say there's one thing about that. They were fired, and they are so grateful that they were fired because their life has benefited after the fact by standing true to their authenticity.

[01:27:56] Josh: It was a gift.

[01:27:58] Alec: A gift. And then the second thing, though, that I've frequently heard people say, if other people had simply just said no alongside me, there's nothing that they could have done. There's no way they're going to fire all of us. They need all of us in order to keep the system afloat.

[01:28:14] So again, if we just stood in our authenticity and realized that we have the power individually and more importantly collectively when we represent that strong coherent field, we overtake and in train a weakened coherent field. There's nothing that "they" can do to us.

[01:28:29] Aaron: That's my point. When I say they didn't force anybody to take the jab, of course what they did was wrong, lying and all this stuff. But that's how they get out of it in court, is they say we didn't force anybody.

[01:28:41] Because the negative polarity always wins through contracts. Whether physical or metaphysical, when you sell your soul to the devil in Hollywood or whatever, it's always this contract you sign with those dark powers where they say, hey, we can do a lot for you.

[01:28:54] We can get you exposure and fame and fortune, and all you have to do is X, Y, Z. And so the Beyonce's of the world are like, wait, great. Whatever gets me famous. And that's a contract with a deal with the devil. Now you're under contract. And so just like spiritually, if anyone listening has made contracts with the darkness in this way, even holding a negative thought in your mind about someone is a type of contract with the negative polarity.

[01:29:18] That's why forgiveness is the ultimate means for freedom and purity. Because you're signing no contracts with the devil when you forgive everyone. You have to kill those contracts somehow. Forgiveness is what kills them on the spiritual plane, and coming in peace, knowing who you are, and declaring who you are, and affirming, like, I did not know what I was agreeing to when I signed that contract.

[01:29:41] I was coerced. With the jab or something, I was tricked with this contract. So I rescind it under peace. I'm not in conflict. I'm just rescinding a contract. That's how you do it on the physical plane. So either way, you're doing the same thing, is you're canceling your contracts with the negative polarity.

[01:29:57] But it's much more complicated, let's say, on the physical plane because they've weaved their web in so many ways that these people didn't even know what was happening, but there were those few nurses and firefighters who knew some common law, and they were like, wait a minute, they can't coerce me and put me under duress to take a jab. That's illegal.

[01:30:14] And they were able to affirm their rights under common law, and they didn't have to take it. But those people were not talked about in the media. Nobody knew that that was happening, but it was happening.

[01:30:14] Alec: Yeah. I remember the example now, is Ian smith. He's the one who said-- because he was talking to me about how prior to the day where he made the decision that irrespective of what the New Jersey state government says they're going to do, he's going to just stay open, whatever. He had he 500 other businesses who were all rallying behind him like, yeah, we're going to do it too. And it ended up being two of those 500 who actually did it.

[01:30:48] And again, in hindsight, he's like, this was the best thing that ever happened to me, standing on authenticity. Was it hard? Hell, yeah, it was hard. The New Jersey government wrongfully confiscated a bunch of money from him, things like this.

[01:31:01] Josh: They fine him like millions of dollars.

[01:31:01] Alec: Yeah, millions.

[01:31:02] Josh: Every day it was like 25K or something.

[01:31:04] Alec: Yeah. He's the man. He's such a good dude in person too. He's one of those guys, like, you see him, and he has a lot of attention on him, and you wonder how he is in person, and in person, he's salt of the earth, awesome human being. And what he often says is that had those other businesses simply just said no and followed along with him, again, there's nothing that the New Jersey state government could have done.

[01:31:15] And they did bring down the hammer on Ian, but they still didn't really do much in the grand scheme of things because he stood true to his authenticity and said no and had a strong no.

[01:31:39] Aaron: And that's why we have to build conscious communities, because then more of us can say no together, and there's nothing they can do about it, but they win by keeping us divided. You live over there. I live over here. We're all suffering in silence, separate from each other. We can't rely on each other for these things. We can't share knowledge and information.

[01:31:55] But just imagine if we had a community, even though of just a couple thousand people here in Austin. And the way I see it is we have law experts serving as the perimeter defense of the community. We have these law experts that understand how the game works, and they act as the shield that protects the community from the tentacles of the matrix getting in.

[01:32:15] And then I think the next thing you would need is the pole in the center of the community that grounds it like a shared spirituality, where we come together. We worship the creator together. We commune and love each other. When you have those two things, a shared strong sense of spirituality and a protection of common law experts defending the community from the matrix, you can do whatever you want then. You can make any technologies you want.

[01:32:40] Josh: And in that system, I think it would be impossible for there to be a cultish leader because it would be about serving the all. There's no way in that type of structure could there be some dude that makes everybody drink the punch. That ain't going to fucking happen.

[01:32:54] Because the mission is so palpable, so clear. It's literally impossible for people to even label it a cult because they would look at it for a second and be like, oh, well, that's actually just a community of people who are free.

[01:32:04] Aaron: All serving each other.

[01:32:05] Luke: Also for the charismatic leader, the archetypal charismatic leader, to start to exploit and subjugate their followers, say in a commune or something like that, there has to be an adoration and a pedestal upon which the group has put that person. So like, say us four right here, we're like, hey, man, I got a piece of land. Let's each build a house. We each get two acres. There's no way if I started to become megalomaniacal, that you three would be like, oh, it's cool, Luke. Let's all follow Luke.

[01:33:39] Aaron: Let's all follow Luke.

[01:32:40] Luke: You know what I'm saying?

[01:33:41] Alec: Totally.

[01:32:41] Luke: You guys call me on my shit. You've turned me onto this, what do you call it? Anarcho?

[01:33:48] Alec: Anarcho capitalism.

[01:33:49] Luke: Anarcho capitalism, and maybe we could talk about that. What's the book? The greatest--

[01:33:56] Alec: The Most Dangerous Superstition by Larken Rose.

[01:33:58] Luke: The Most Dangerous Superstition.

[01:33:58] Aaron: Oh, such a great book.

[01:33:59] Luke: One of the most meaningful books I've ever read, and definitely the most in recent years. But if you look at ancient cultures of tribal people, 50 or 60 people, there was always a majority of people that would keep the megalomaniacal leader in check.

[01:34:13] They would just get left behind, or they'd get ostracized and get eaten by wolves or whatever. So it's like you don't actually need an enforcer if everyone is at least conscious and autonomous enough where they won't allow the leadership to start to get high on their own supply and abuse their power.

[01:34:30] Again, I always go back to the 12 steps There's no leader of 12-step movements. There's no president. No one's in charge. No one can tell anyone what to do ever. It doesn't make any money ever. There's actually a really great model for this called the 12 Traditions, which they don't even call them rules or laws in that movement, but they're traditions that people have understood over time that keep it alive.

[01:34:55] Which is incredible that that particular movement-- it's such a case study for a model where you can apply principles to the individual and their life changes, and their well-being is secured, but you can also apply similar but a different set of principles to a group, even of millions of people across the world that are totally unrelated, but autonomous following the same basic guidelines where no one can rise to power, no one can get rich off it, no one's in charge, no one can tell anyone else what to do. It's really cool. There's ways to do this.

[01:35:27] Aaron: There's so many ways. I think another big part of it is having a vetting process for who you allow in that community.

[01:35:31] Alec: The vetting process is the contract itself, and you can do a verbal contract too. But I've thought about this quite a bit when it comes to confluence because we had a couple of people there this time, and it was very clear, should not be there, and they got rooted out, and it was totally fine.

[01:35:48] And that happened organically, but you just put in the contract if X, Y, and Z occurs, if you infringe or impose upon someone, you agree to pay X amount in damages. It's that simple.

[01:35:58] Josh: Well, even when you look at the human body, it's a system of absolute interdependency where every organ and cell depends on everything else, and so you have to build a community that works like that, where you have people that are using their gifts and talents to serve the whole.

[01:36:12] And so we need our farmers. We need our naturopaths. We need our engineers. We need every system of our society to be functioning well. And so the engineer serves the farmers, the naturopaths, everything else. Everybody in this society has to serve in some way. You don't just get to come into our wonderful oasis of a society and leech off of it and benefit from it.

[01:36:33] No. What are you going to add to it? Just like every part of the body does something beneficial, there's no part of the body that just hangs out and leeches off the rest of it. That's natural law. That's how a society has to be built. And so a vetting process could look a lot like that, where not only do you lay out the contracts of this is the way our society functions.

[01:36:52] Do you agree and want to contribute to a society like this? Yes. Good. Next. What are you going to contribute to this society? And then maybe there's even a waiting period to show us you really want this. Show us you have skin in the game. I think, like the open border situation, when you just let people flock into a good society, it denigrates the society so quickly. Just like when you let toxins come into your body, it starts to tear your body down very quickly.

[01:37:19] Luke: And I don't know how you do this, but I see the need for it. There has to be a system of conflict resolution. I've noticed, when we moved to Texas in 2021, because it was still lockdown-ish, you remember this, there was community groups all the time, 25, 50 people, multiple nights per week, all the people in the spiritual space here, which is everyone, seems like, would all be getting together.

[01:37:49] And I was like, oh my god, everyone's my best friend here. I love everyone. And then as those groups siloed out a little bit, not in a clicky, exclusive way, but just naturally, certain little micro groups start to form, and then there's less of those big gatherings. I've noticed, and I'm sure people have felt the same way about me for sure, is that people in the beginning, I thought, oh, he's going to be my best friend.

[01:38:07] You start to see chinks in the armor, and you're like, yeah, maybe not so much that one and that one. And you start to choose your tribe a little more deliberately. So that's an interesting thing about that, is like, say you have even 20 families that come together and get some land.

[01:38:21] You've set some bylaws. You have a vetting process. You develop some sort of code of ethics, call it the 10 commandments. That'd probably work pretty well. And then some conflict resolution. But ultimately, because we're humans and we're dynamic, there's going to be like, my wife doesn't like this other lady over here that lives in three houses down.

[01:38:39] We don't want to go to the gatherings anymore because it's awkward because we don't vibe anymore. That's the thing I'm always like, what do you do when you get to that point? You have to take medicine together and hash that shit out or what?

[01:38:51] Aaron: A small hut with two cups of ayahuasca.

[01:38:53] Luke: Yeah, exactly. That's the part I always hit up against. I'm like, okay, even if you did everything right, there's still the dynamics of personalities and people's energies, and not everyone is going to be besties and singing Kumbaya around the fire.

[01:39:09] Josh: And also, the maturity to let that be okay. Because that's really what we're-- not everybody's going to like me. The wounded part of me is like, oh man, so and so doesn't want to hang out with me. And that's real. I think that's palpable for all humans, but I am no means an expert on Kim Wilber's work, but I just got introduced to it by Scott Jackson.

[01:39:28] And he talks about this concept that we've done some content on in Mao, and when he instituted communism, he made every man and woman look the same, same haircut, same clothes, genderless societies. And what happens in that is you get rid of all hierarchy, except for the totalitarian regime that's fucking owning everyone.

[01:39:47] So really, there is a natural order in nature of hierarchy, and in common law, and in conscious community, there would be the same thing. We would figure it out because the common law is the glue that holds us together. And as long as there is truly, I do no harm, then personality conflicts can be either worked out, or people can just have the maturity to live with one another. It just has to be okay.

[01:40:07] Luke: Just agree to disagree. Because the thing that not only in my own subjective experience, I've just seen how groups of people coalesce and sometimes gel, sometimes not, and there's sometimes, division or even conflict-- I don't have kids yet. You guys all do. You have kids, right?

[01:40:22] Aaron: On the way.

[01:40:23] Luke: Okay. So one of the things that's so interesting to me about observing kids and even animals, even your pets will do this, but especially kids, like, take 10 kids at a birthday party or at the playground at the park and just set them loose, and none of them know each other yet. You'll see them start clicking up.

[01:40:40] It's like two little kids are just best friends all of a sudden, and they don't get along with that other kid for no reason. It's just a vibe. It's a chemistry thing. It's really interesting to observe, but I think sometimes around conscious communities, and I've experienced this in some of my men's groups and things like that is like, I think sometimes people naively think that everyone is going to vibe and be best friends. It's like sometimes you just have more of a natural rapport with someone.

[01:41:04] You just click. It never feels awkward. You just vibe like I have that with all three of you. You, Josh, not as much. You know what I'm saying? And we could have three other guys in here that are beautiful, powerful souls or women or whatever, and maybe like, we have a chat after the podcast. It's just like, we're done talking.

[01:41:22] It just gets awkward. You just don't have chemistry in that way. I think it's a naive expectation that we have around conscious community that everyone's going to be super best friends.

[01:41:35] Alec: We're dancing around conscious community, anarcho capitalist, voluntarist, common law-based societies, and there's a projection coming from those who are pro-statism, meaning pro government, who will say, what you're talking about sounds like a utopia that's not possible, an unattainable utopia. And the reality, is my stance on that is like, well, government sounds like an unattainable utopia. Freedom coming from government? Show me one example where that's actually happened and lasted throughout history, one.

[01:42:04] Aaron: Take the plaque out of your own eye first.

[01:42:06] Alec: Right. But with that, it's the understanding that I'm not claiming, by operating in a voluntary society that it will ever be perfect. There is always going to be conflict, and it's just being okay with that, and continuing to encourage people to adopt ideals related to voluntarism, related to the non-aggression principle, and related to self-ownership. And that requires you own your own shit, and you're not projecting onto other people.

[01:42:31] And I think when you are truly seeking to embody that, especially in the context of a community, you can resolve conflicts a little bit better. Is it going to get to a point where it's perfect and you're like buddy buddy with everyone? Might not, and that's okay though. And that's just life. It's not going to be perfect, but I can guarantee that a society based on 100% voluntary agreements, voluntary interactions, is much better than coercion and force, much better.

[01:42:57] Aaron: Oh, yes. That's why the shared spirituality, shared values, is such a staple for a community, is because you have to keep always preaching those common values of like, do no harm. That's one of our core principles here in this society. If you do harm to anyone, you must make remedy. That's the right thing to do.

[01:43:15] But teaching brotherly love and like, you don't have to like everyone, but you have to love everyone. You have to respect everyone. Otherwise, the society breaks down. We can be constantly reminding each other of where we came from and what the alternative is to this society. Oh, yeah. I'll be glad to respect you now, knowing what the alternative is.

[01:43:34] These things, I don't think are that difficult, but it's yet to be executed on our planet, at least in this way. I'm a huge fan of the Essenes and studying them because they really did figure it out in a huge way for about 300 years in the Qumran Valley around the first century, they had a shared spirituality that they practiced peace.

[01:43:55] They call it the Sevenfold Peace. And it's like, peace with the body, physical health, peace with the mind, peace with the spirit. One of them is peace with the brotherhood, which is peace with community, that the creator intended us to have peace with one another. And so we can have differences. We'll have differences, and we both want to resolve them because we both share the core value of peace with my brothers and sisters.

[01:44:18] And if you can instill that in people, it's just like what communists do. They propagandize everyone over and over with the same phrases until it becomes an ideology that everyone marches in lockstep to. Well, we could do the same thing on the light side by preaching loving values over and over again.

[01:44:35] Everywhere that they turn, they're seeing these values, and it becomes an embodied thing in the culture. And the good thing about it is those values produce good fruits. So they speak for themselves, that when we do practice these things, it's not just something we say we have the evidence for it now.

[01:44:47] We actually all get to experience how wonderful a society is where we don't have to all hang out. We don't have to all like each other. We all respect one another. And that's a society that flourishes. And so we all agree that's a core value We want to share.

[01:45:03] Josh: I think the challenge in that is that we're biological beings. So Jason Silva talks about how our brain is wired for empathy. And you guys have all heard like we have tribe for a reason. It's because back in the day, if I was at a corn and I treated you well, then my neighbor would give me corn, make sure my family didn't die.

[01:45:19] So that's baked deep into the amygdala, the prefrontal cortex, the ancient fucking structures of the brain. So I think we're butting up against biology in this 3D world of what the challenge of being conscious actually is. It's knowing that you're a body, but you're not that body, knowing that you have a brain that's shouting information at you, but you're not your brain.

[01:45:38] And I think that's the challenge in maybe just enveloping people in the awareness that it doesn't have to be so fucking hard. We can actually work with each other. We can love each other, and we can be mature enough to know that we maybe are not going to always be best friends. And that's okay too.

[01:45:53] But we're literally fighting biology in certain ways. Definitely neurology, some old school neurology that I'm in the middle of my own life, I think, unless you guys have achieved nirvana. I don't know if you've completely defeated and ascended your biology.

[01:46:08] Aaron: Only on Tuesdays.

[01:46:10] Alec: Today, Tuesday?

[01:46:11] Luke: Alec, can you speak to, because you really have this on lock, that what we're describing is not historically proven to be possible if we're outsourcing the building of what we're describing to an outside authority? Why doesn't voting work? Why isn't our society getting better when we have a new "leader" that comes in?

[01:46:43] Alec: Well, voting, assuming that it works the way we're told that it does, which is a big assumption--

[01:46:54] Luke: The programmable voting machines that are on Wi-Fi that someone has a password to?

[01:46:57] Aaron: Don't worry, we're counting your votes correctly.

[01:46:58] Josh: Hanging Chad. Look that shit up.

[01:47:00] Alec: Yeah. So assuming that votes count the way that they're claimed to, the idea that you should take your thoughts, feelings, beliefs, and perceptions, and all of us acknowledge that it is wrong to use force to force other people to adopt those thoughts, feelings, beliefs, and perceptions. But the idea behind voting is that, okay, I think it's wrong for me to force someone to do X, Y, and Z.

[01:47:29] But I think it's totally justifiable that we put someone else in place who has "authority" to take my thoughts, feelings, beliefs, and actions, and use the mechanism of government to violently enforce them upon other people. That is inherently flawed and inherently immoral. And that is what voting is. Again, assuming that it actually works the way that they claim that it does. Yeah.

[01:47:56] Aaron: I'll add to that too, the idea that I'm going to vote for a person, and it's always one of two people. It's like, who do you prefer, Hitler or Stalin? And you're like, well, Hitler's a pretty bad guy. He thinks Stalin's a good guy. That's how they play the game.

[01:48:10] Josh: You're a Trumper.

[01:48:11] Aaron: Yeah, exactly. But the idea that I'm going to vote for one person who's going to make all the decisions that I would want them to make for the next four years is totally insane. There's no person on the planet who would do what I would want them to do in every possible decision.

[01:48:26] So I'm going to vote for a guy who then I give free reign to do whatever he wants. And after I vote for him, I can't say no anymore because I voted for him. You see how they built it to be a controllable system in that way, that all they have to do is get their guy in that position and then they have free reign to rule as they want for the next four years until they do it all over again.

[01:48:43] Alec: So well said. It's also absolving one's own personal responsibility to create the life that they want and also absolving one's accountability for not having a life that they want because you can perpetually just say, oh, he's going to do it for me. And then when they don't do it for you, you can say, oh, he was supposed to do it for me, but he didn't do it for me.

[01:49:03] Aaron: He's the problem.

[01:49:04] Alec: Yeah, it's constantly absolving oneself of responsibility and absolving oneself of any--

[01:49:11] Josh: It's essentially always moving the goalpost so you completely control the game, and you just go, oh, it looks like the goalpost moved. That's really what it is.

[01:49:17] Aaron: It looks like I'm giving you a free choice. But I'm not actually.

[01:49:22] Luke: Well, that book that you turned me onto, The Most Dangerous Superstition by Larken Rose, I highly encourage you put that in the show notes. I'm going to put this podcast out on my channel. We'll put it in the show notes. And you've had Larken Rose on your podcast, and I'm working on it.

[01:49:41] To me, the mind-blowing meta-analysis of that is that if you look at all of the problems in our society today, from a historical lens, they can really all be boiled down to this superstitious belief that we humans have that one human being over there has some special authority or special rights to tell us what to do or to punish anyone, to jail anyone, to inflict violence on anyone.

[01:50:09] It's the weirdest thing. I can't even articulate how bizarre it is. But what it made me think of was like the royal families and these bloodlines and all of the accoutrements and all the robes and jeweled crowns, and it's like, how did we get so duped into thinking because you came out of that particular vagina that now you have some authority over society?

[01:50:33] It is absolutely freaking insane. And especially because it's not based on the natural order of equality of outcomes. If you have a pride of lions, there's going to be one that's more badass than the other ones and overpowers the other and takes the alpha position. But they've actually earned it through the virtue of their character, their abilities, whether it's their intellect or physical prowess. We're putting weak, cowardly, liar, pedophiles in positions of power willingly. Why? It's insane.

[01:51:01] Alec: This is what's incredible about adopting a perspective of common law, is that you come back to the understanding that all of those people, irrespective of whatever their title or so-called position of authority is, are literally just men and women just like us.

[01:51:30] They're just men and women. And we tend to view government as this big bad scary thing, and it really, as I've come to understand is the Wizard of Oz with a little fat guy behind the curtain. And that's what it's more like. It's like, no, those are literally just men and women, the overwhelming majority of whom are acting as agents that are just conditioned to believe what they're doing is correct.

[01:51:51] But the ones at the tippy top, if they do indeed have nefarious intentions, like some of us tend to think that they do, are literally just men and women like us. They're just men and women. And it's our own collective condition belief that they have more power, more authority than us, that upholds that in reality.

[01:52:11] Once we dissolve that belief that they have any "authority" over us because of some random title that they have before or after their name, it ceases to exist. And of course, requires that we act upon the dissolution of that conditioned belief, and that's where I think common law is the bridge to a voluntary society.

[01:52:28] Because common law is the pathway to revoking the various contractual agreements that we have with various organizations represented above the government to then come back to a totally voluntary interaction between men and women.

[01:52:47] Aaron: Well, going back to what you said about like, where do we get this belief from, it's a very ancient, antiquated belief that goes back for millennia in human history that ancient people really did believe that kings and queens had a special bloodline that was blessed by the gods.

[01:53:03] You see this all over the Bible, even. There's a story of a blind man that Jesus heals, and his disciples are like, Lord, who sinned that this man was born blind? His parents or him? And Jesus is like, nobody sinned that he was born blind, but that God's glory could be revealed in him. And then he heals him. And it's a testament to that people in those days, especially the Greeks believed that people who were sick and diseased were cursed by the gods for their bad karma or whatever.

[01:53:27] And those who were wealthy, who were in leadership positions were blessed by the gods. And so it was a normal belief in society in ancient times that kings and queens and rulers were highly, highly blessed and chosen by the gods. Even in the Bible, it says no one rises to authority that God does not choose.

[01:53:45] And so I think it's just a belief system that's yet to be fully transmuted out of the collective consciousness in a way that we're still carrying the lingering effects of it. But Larken makes a great point in that book, The Superstition--

[01:54:01] Alec: The Most Dangerous Superstition.

[01:54:02] Aaron: The Most Dangerous Superstition. Nobody would ever vote for a known serial killer to be their president. Imagine if the press got a hold of that their campaign would be over. But yet, a Barack Obama had his first term, and he did the most drone strikes in presidential history up to that point.

[01:54:19] Luke: You're talking about Barack Drone bama?

[01:54:22] Aaron: Yes, Drone bama.

[01:54:24] Josh: He's married to Mike.

[01:54:26] Luke: Oh, shit. Here we go.

[01:54:27] Aaron: Now we're really wearing the tinfoil hats.

[01:54:32] Josh: Big Mike.

[01:54:33] Alec: I think Big Mike's running for president, honestly.

[01:54:36] Aaron: But he makes this argument that Obama drone striked thousands of innocent people overseas. He's solely responsible as the president with the red button that he committed thousands and thousands of murders, and yet he got voted in again.

[01:54:41] Luke: Won a Noble Peace Prize.

[01:54:41] Aaron: Won the Nobel Peace Prize on top of that. So nobody who voted for Obama would ever think I'm voting for a serial killer right now. But this person has a hundreds of times higher body count than any serial killer in prison has. So it shows you how much the illusion of authority blinds us from reality. It's wild.

[01:55:14] Alec: And think about that too, those that are acting as agents who are the ones who maybe in the air force or in the army who are initiating the drone strikes or firing artillery in these spots or things like this.

[01:55:26] Aaron: Just following orders.

[01:55:27] Alec: Just following orders. And this is what government does. It absolves the individual of responsibility for their own actions in the physical realm, but again, karmically, that's a different story. But the point being is that that is what the mechanism of government allows.

[01:55:43] It allows people to just perpetually point fingers at other people. Even when it came to that with Obama having the most drone strikes of any president, I'm sure that when people bring that up to him, he finds a way to shift responsibility to someone else within government.

[01:55:57] And that's what government allows people to do, is just continually shift blame and responsibility to other people to where no one's actually taking ownership of their own stuff.

[01:56:09] Josh: Earlier you talked about feeling your feelings and the feeling of feelings-- in my family altar over there, there's a picture of my grandfather. He's a brigadier general in the Marine Corps. I'm so proud of him because he was fighting for something that he believed in, that he would die for. And there's so much nobility in that.

[01:56:23] And now as I go through my own process of seeing what is, it's so painful because I'm like, man, I wonder if grandpa would have done that if he knew, if he actually knew what he was really fighting for and how much of a dishonoring that is to him, and us, and our family.

[01:56:40] It brings up a deep grief and a deep sadness in me that the flag doesn't actually represent what we think it does. I've stopped wearing my American flags. And I'm pro America, but I'm not pro America corporation.

[01:56:52] There's a fundamental fucking difference of what we're talking about here. And I wonder, throw it out there, popcorn, what is the difference between United States, the true America that I think a part of us always deeply longs for, this unity, versus the United States corporation centered in District of Columbia. That is a really big piece that gets to be fleshed out.

[01:57:15] Alec: Yeah. And I think you just answered it basically there. This one was the biggest point of cognitive dissonance in my life because I went to West Point. I was an officer in the army. I went to the world's preeminent government indoctrination camp.

[01:57:28] Josh: So you've been through bootcamp.

[01:57:28] Alec: I went to West Point, man. That is revered as the best military institution in the world. So for me, dissolving this cognitive dissonance was really painful learning what the government actually is and what it represents, etc. But what the US government is, what the United States of America is are two completely different things.

[01:57:51] The United States is a corporation located in the District of Columbia of an unknown area within the District of Columbia. But that's where it's based. And it's a corporation. It's a pseudo overlay, de facto government on the top of the original de jure, independent nation states that represented the United States of America, which were themselves their own nations. At some time, they had their own currency. They had their own laws and customs, and largely they still do, to some degree.

[01:58:21] Josh: Was this the original 13 colonies or no? It's different.

[01:58:23] Alec: Yes, that then expanded to be the original nation states that were the 50 independent nation states. And this is where it gets a little dicey because technically, you could say probably only 47 of them prior to the de facto government being fully brought into place.

[01:58:38] Luke: It was like Europe. You have Italy, France, Portugal. It was like that. You have Republic of Texas, the California Republic, the Southwest territory for Tennessee, and so on. And there was no federal government or corporation overseeing that. It's like the European Union. Although I don't think there is overreaching into those various countries, but it is like that as I understand it.

[01:58:02] Alec: Well, it's starting to be though. That's the thing. It is like the European Union is starting to become its own thing where the independent nations that make up the European Union are having less and less authority to do what they want to do as an independent nation. And I think that's the whole point, is in every facet of Earth there's a movement by--

[01:59:28] Luke: All across the globe?

[01:59:23] Alec: I refuse to say that.

[01:59:28] Aaron: Don't do it, dude. Don't do it.

[01:59:29] Josh: Do not open that.

[01:59:30] Luke: I was listening to your podcast today, and you were interviewing a guest, I think it was your most recent one, and you were like, well, all across this earthly realm, this earthly plane, I think he said. I was like, interesting.

[01:59:43] Josh: So I can still rock the old glory with the 13 colony stars.

[01:59:47] Alec: Yeah, you could.

[01:59:43] Josh: But.

[01:59:43] Aaron: You might have some angry liberals coming after you.

[01:59:54] Josh: I can deal with that. That already happens anyway.

[01:59:57] Alec: It's tough because for me that also doesn't fully represent freedom because there was some subsets of people who weren't totally free even within the 13 colonies. African American people were not free within that.

[02:00:10] And so the ideas behind it, if you bring into context that they had some flaws, I think it's totally justified to wear that 13 colonies hat. But I understand why. Ian smith shares an example that he knew that he did the right thing when a bunch of people showed up behind him and stamped American flags in the ground and stood behind him.

[02:00:32] There's a certain context in which that is appropriate, and it makes sense because when you attribute it to the people who live on this land rather than the government, it's a completely different sentiment. I think the overwhelming majority of, let's say, right leaning people, they are unknowingly and unwittingly basically self-identifying with the US government by backing the US flag, but that's not what they mean by it.

[02:00:59] They mean the people around them. That's what they mean. And if you look at it through that lens, I don't think that there's any issue with even flying the flag that has all 50 stars on it. But you have to understand the context of what they're using it to represent. Because that same flag flies outside of the IRS, the FBI, the CDC, the FDA, the NSA, and all these other tyrannical agents--

[02:01:24] Aaron: With a gold rim around it.

[02:01:26] Alec: Yeah, it's a battle flag. I think it just depends on the context.

[02:01:30] Luke: It's kind of like the way I look at it in simple terms is you have America like the land mass and all of the beautiful people on that land mass and then you have the United States, which is a privately held for profit corporation, and we think, oh, I'm proud to be a US citizen. I'm proud to live in the United States.

[02:01:49] It's like, you're proud to be like an employee of Walmart, basically. You know, that's how it is. It's like, it's a corporation. It's a company that we work for that we're owned by, but we don't know it. But America itself, beautiful, man. Why I think America is so awesome. And also there's another mind virus that if you say I love America, it means you hate other countries, which is completely ridiculous.

[02:02:15] Josh: We can add that to the psyop list of 2024.

[02:02:15] Luke: Just for the record, I've been to a lot of other countries. They're all awesome-- India, Brazil, UK.

[02:02:19] Aaron: You don't like Hitler, then you love Stalin? You're evil.

[02:02:23] Luke: Exactly. But just as a quick rant why I think America is so goddamn awesome is, a, that it came out of the-- our constitution essentially came out of the magna carta, which is such a beautiful document on how to organize society in a way.

[02:02:38] Aaron: Calibrates to 500 too.

[02:02:39] Luke: Does it?

[02:02:38] Aaron: On the Hawkins scale?

[02:02:40] Luke: Oh, wow. Yeah, yeah. And so there's that, and that's the presupposition or the subcontext for like why people started to come here. But if you think about some of the other places in the world historically that really sucked and were also very difficult to get out of, especially if you didn't have money, you're having to take like boats over here and shit before planes.

[02:03:00] You couldn't just walk across the Southern border like you can now. It was very hard to get here. And I think why there's been so many incredible innovations that have come out of this country that we call America, this landmass, is because all the most badass people from all these different cultures around the world migrated here under the premise of freedom.

[02:03:21] Now, they didn't know that by a certain time, that was gone. But there was an original idea there, leaving aside the obvious elephant in the room of the indigenous people that got totally screwed when we all came here. But that said, none of us knew that. My ancestors didn't come here to beat up and ruin the lives of Indians by any stretch.

[02:03:39] But it's like you have people from all over the world and all these beautiful cultures and religious beliefs all converging on one landmass and building basically the most dominant culture in the world of just amazing people. So when I say I love America, a, it doesn't mean I don't love all the other countries.

[02:03:57] B, it doesn't mean that I love the de facto corporation that runs this shit. It means that I love all of you, and I love everyone listening no matter what race, creed, gender, culture. I don't give a shit about any of that. I care about people that want to have a good life and share their prosperity.

[02:04:15] Automobiles, televisions, computers, just think about the innovation that this country. And it wasn't created by a bunch of colonizing white people. It's like very creative people from all over the world that came here with their intellect, and their heart, and their creativity, and their resourcefulness, their productivity, and created a freaking awesome society that unfortunately has just been hijacked by a bunch of greedy banksters that duped us all into going along with it and then raising our flags and like, rah, rah, rah, for them, the ones that ruined this shit that was a really beautiful idea to begin with.

[02:04:50] Aaron: We said earlier the negative polarity uses words and money to control people. And really, what we're talking about is the difference between the republic form of government that was instituted at the founding 1776 when it was the land, the United States of America, upper and lower case.

[02:05:09] And then when we were forcibly bankrupted and became the all-caps corporation, that's when they did the 14th Amendment citizenship, where the word citizen, the etymology of that word C-I-T-I means municipal. And Zen in Latin means servant. So it's like a city servant or a city employee. So everyone's like, as a citizen, I'm so upset about this and that.

[02:05:33] And it's like, well, that's the problem, is you're a citizen. So you're an employee of the company, and you're basically like a Facebook employee, getting angry at the Facebook leaders for what they're doing. They're just going to punish you for that. They're going to say, shut up, I'm docking your pay.

[02:05:47] You're my employee. Shut up. That's what the United States Inc does to people who talk bad about the company. So we're talking about a company versus a Republic form of government that was dissolved in-- was it 1933? When we took money off the gold standard, were bankrupt and insolvent, they made a corporation on top of the real country.

[02:06:06] Alec: That was in 1871 through the Organic Act.

[02:04:50] Aaron: Thank you. But zip codes is a great example of this. A zip code is a contract with the company. When you put a zip code on your address, you're saying I'm a resident of Washington DC because zip codes are districts just like the District of Columbia.

[02:06:24] So the District of Columbia, DC, where the corporation is, made a, think about a plastic mat put over the map of the United States and they drew little districts everywhere and numbered them. That's what a zip code is. So they're like, hey, do you live in one of our districts? And when you put down your zip code, you're like, yeah, I live in this one of your districts. So like, great, you're our employee. We own you. Contract signed.

[02:06:44] Luke: It's like the Hunger Games

[02:06:44] Aaron: You're tacitly agreeing by writing a zip code, agreeing through ignorance. You don't know you're saying that, but all that matters is that you're saying that. The negative polarity just needs your agreement in any form or fashion, and they've got your free will. And so they can control you with it.

[02:07:01] Alec: And that's why I go back and forth because I hold to mostly seamless beliefs and voluntarism, which renders the state completely obsolete. And a lot of volunteers would say you don't need to play this paperwork game. Just dissolve the conditioned belief and stop doing that altogether.

[02:07:18] And then common law and with respect to these tacit agreements or what are often called adhesion contracts, I do question the validity of those because it's like, did I have an intent to contract?

[02:07:31] Aaron: No. They're not real contracts.

[02:07:33] Alec: Was I aware that I was contracting? You're right. And I think the only reason that there's any legitimacy in them is because the collective of society just agrees that it's that way.

[02:07:43] Luke: It creates a consensus.

[02:07:44] Alec: Yeah, it creates a consensus.

[02:07:46] Aaron: You can do whatever you want.

[02:07:48] Luke: I was reading something the other day, and I don't remember them all, and I think you're familiar with this document. There's seven qualities of a contract that make it valid.

[02:08:00] Alec: I'm not familiar.

[02:08:00] Aaron: Yes. I know what you're talking about.

[02:08:01] Luke: And one of them is loosely called a meeting of the minds where all the terms of the contract are made clear.

[02:08:09] Aaron: Full disclosure.

[02:08:09] Luke: Yeah, yeah. So if you think about all the contracts with which we've engaged, I can't think of any contracts my whole life I've signed with the state wherein it was clearly explained to me what I was actually agreeing to.

[02:08:23] Josh: It's called legalese. It's coded language.

[02:08:27] Luke: Whereas if you're operating in the world in a way, say, like last year, I exited a business. I sold a business. They're giving me their offer, and there's terms of the offer, and there's a contract, and there's an agreement. I don't know how to read that stuff, of course.

[02:08:43] So I hire an attorney who explains it to me in plain English. This is what happens if when, why, who does what, who pays what, when, and all that right. So the other party has clarity. There's a meeting of the minds. There's a intermediary that's playing the referee. Two of them, actually, two attorneys.

[02:09:00] But by the end of that interaction, I knew exactly what I was signing, what was going to happen, what the risks were involved, what I was having to give up, and what I was going to get. The other party knew exactly what they were giving up, and what they were going to get.

[02:09:11] They're giving up some money, and they're getting the assets of this company. But it doesn't work like that when we contract with the state. It's a one-sided agreement, therefore nullifies the fact that it's actually a contract. It doesn't meet the prerequisite terms for a valid contract.

[02:09:26] Aaron: No, it doesn't. It all goes back to what Alec keeps saying about it's the collective agreement and this illusion of authority that keeps their power. Because every contract we've talked about on this podcast, from your driver's license to your social legal fiction, they're all what's called unconscionable contracts, which are null and void under the law because you've got to know what you're signing.

[02:09:47] There can't be any deception in the contract. These things get thrown out by judges. But when you've got 330 million people who have their signature on the paper, and the legal system has that signature, you better believe they're going to keep weaponizing it until we hold them accountable for it and say, I didn't know what I was signing. You tricked me. That's an unconscionable contract. And that's really all common law is, is saying that.

[02:10:11] Josh: Okay. So there's something really interesting that I want your take on. And if you really trace everything back, it's England. England is who brought us over. 1776 was an escape from England. It was an escape from that island.

[02:10:25] Aaron: From the same system we have now.

[02:10:27] Josh: Exactly. So from an emotional epigenetics perspective, think about what osmotically happened. We were abused for so long. Then we came here, killed all the Native Americans, instituted this slavery. We literally did unconsciously, as a race, as a humanity what was done to us.

[02:10:43] So it just continued on and on, and now we're just waking up to it. So there's no shame or blame. It definitely makes me fucking unsettled. It's definitely unsettling. It's very sobering. And I'm honestly still going through the emotional process of like, maybe you're further along. Maybe you guys are further along. But there isn't a emotional spiritual malady that we have been perpetuating, and it's just time for a different game.

[02:11:07] Alec: The way you just pieced it together was pretty incredible there, honestly.

[02:11:10] Josh: Think about what we did to the native Americans when we came over.

[02:11:13] Aaron: We karmically recreated it.

[02:11:14] Josh: We just continued on the unconscious behavior of slavery and torture.

[02:11:18] Alec: Under the guise of freedom though. That's the crazy part.

[02:11:20] Aaron: Get out of here. We're trying to be free. We're going to take your lands so we can be free.

[02:11:24] Josh: We're going to kill you.

[02:11:26] Luke: I'm no history buff to be able to make this claim, but I intuit that Civilians that came here to flee taxation and oppression from England, maybe a few of them, but largely were just people that were coming here to just find a place to kick it.

[02:11:42] Josh: They just wanted freedom. Guns, chickens.

[02:08:27] Luke: And then ultimately, the version of the state that migrated over are the ones that actually form militia, and that instituted the genocide.

[02:11:54] Alec: That's a really good point.

[02:11:55] Luke: And you can look at it all around the world. This is what trips me out. You can go to Brazil. You can go to Paraguay. You can go to India. You can go to just about any country where that rapacious colonial conquering has taken place, and it usually has to do with them, whoever they are, Wanting the resources of that place. And so they come in and either kill or imprison or enslave the native population, take their shit.

[02:12:25] But it's not like the civilians that came along with them that are doing it. It's the same people that are doing it to us now. They're just doing it to us under the guise of freedom as free-range, grass-fed, pasture-raised slaves.

[02:12:41] Aaron: Better slaves. But here's how it kind of works karmically, though. I think it's the Native Americans, number one, and number two, slavery that we karmically earned the system we're under through those travesties, because not a lot of people know this, but less than 5% of the population in the United States own slaves, or of Caucasian people own slaves.

[02:13:02] And when you learn about it in school or in culture, on TV and media, you would think it was 95% of people own slaves. You're white. You're evil because you own slaves. No, I didn't. Nobody in my bloodline ever owned slaves. But here's how it works karmically, is that even though only the wealthiest people back then could afford to have slaves, less than 5%, the other 95% was tacitly acquiescing to it.

[02:13:25] They weren't putting up enough of a fight for long enough. We said, well, it's not my slave, not my problem. And we let the injustice go on, probably very similar to what happened with the Native Americans. People knew they were getting slaughtered and their lands taken, but they're like, well, it's just evil people doing bad things.

[02:13:39] They weren't running out to go defend the Native Americans and put a stop to the injustice. So from the universe's perspective, you're still somewhat complicit in that karma, and so it does come back around. So the universe is looking for absolute purity and righteousness on all behalves, or the karmic cycle will have to repeat in some way. So we're learning that.

[02:13:58] Luke: That's deep.

[02:13:59] Josh: It's mind blowing.

[02:13:00] Luke: It's like karma is a ledger that is always trying to seek balance and equilibrium.

[02:14:03] Aaron: Perfect. Karma is the great balance keeper of the universe.

[02:14:10] Luke: Yeah. That's interesting.

[02:14:12] Josh: So the one aspect of freedom that we haven't gotten into is why do we get sick? What is that all about? And can you just start us in that conversation about terrain? It's not even versus. I almost said terrain versus germ or terrain versus getting sick. What's the difference between terrain and virus and how do you even begin that conversation with someone like me who has hypervigilance and potentially is judgmental?

[02:14:35] Alec: Yeah, so I can get into the molecular details, so to speak, on virology bacteriology, etc. But I think even a step above that, we approach life as if it's a well-established, irrefutable scientific fact that fluids from another person who is sick can cause illness in a healthy person. The overwhelming majority of society operates that way.

[02:15:00] But that idea is not only completely unproven, I would venture to say that at this point it has been thoroughly disproven, and here's why. Daniel Roytas, as an example, just released a book called Can You Catch a Cold where he documented, I think, 204 studies in which they've attempted to demonstrate that fluids from a sick person cause disease in a healthy person.

[02:15:23] We're talking countless types of diseased fluids-- chicken pox pustules, fluids from that. Fluids directly from people who are expressing "flu-like" symptoms, infected blood from sick people, series of experiments during the Spanish flu where they took 100 volunteers who were not sick and exposed them via various methods to fluids from people who are sick with the Spanish flu, even taking several of the volunteers and having them go into a Spanish flu ward and having the patients open mouth cough into their face, talk at close range, taking nasal secretions from these sick patients, swabbing the back of these healthy volunteers throats, etc.

[02:16:02] And what Daniel and several of us have documented is that in these countless experimental attempts to demonstrate that disease is spread via the fluids of a sick person, none of them were successful, none of them.

[02:16:13] Aaron: Zero.

[02:16:14] Alec: Zero of them were successful. So, again, this idea that fluids from a sick person cause disease in a healthy person is thoroughly disproven at this point. And I know that for those who've not heard this before that may sound like absolute nonsense. But I invite you to look into this information yourself. And once you do, you will realize that what I'm saying is absolutely true.

[02:16:35] Now, virologists, molecular biologists, and the like will cite studies in which they claim to have demonstrated that disease is spread via the fluids of a sick person or sick animal. But oftentimes, when you read those experiments, they go like this.

[02:16:49] They'll take a rabbit, or a ferret, or a mouse that is raised in a lab separate of other animals of its kind, eating an unnatural diet, raised under fluorescent lights, possibly exposed to other experiments, in a state of perpetual fight or flight, and then they'll take unpurified fluid from a sick person and inject that directly into the animal's brain or pump its stomach full of it.

[02:17:10] And then the animal sometimes gets sick, sometimes it won't. Sometimes it'll die, sometimes it won't. And then they'll claim that that represents something that happens in nature. But again, when we refer back to the experimental attempts in which they've tried to demonstrate this "naturally", this idea that disease is spread via the fluids of a sick person, they have been unsuccessful in attempting to demonstrate this.

[02:17:32] And in fact, in several of the studies, one of which, I forget the exact authors. I can send it to you so you can link in the show notes, but they had what could be considered a "proper control group" that was exposed to a saline placebo, thinking that they were going to be receiving the fluids from a sick person.

[02:17:50] And a higher percentage of people became sick when exposed to the saline placebo than those who received the fluids of a sick person, which reemphasizes the idea that this is one of the largest factors. And then we can refer to study published in July of 2021 in part by the CDC that looked at 540,000 people who died in the hospital with "COVID" as one of their causes of death.

[02:18:12] And I emphasize "COVID." I can explain why. But what they found is that the second strongest risk factor for death associated with COVID is fear/anxiety-related disorders. Think about the implications of that.

[02:18:26] That means people who had already had a diagnosis that they had a fear/anxiety-related disorder, not accounting for what I would imagine to be the large number of people who did not have diagnosed fear/anxiety- related disorder, but given the context of what the media was doing and how everyone is in perpetual fear, were in perpetual fear and anxiety themselves, wound up in the hospital, wound up being put on a ventilator, wound up being put on a remdesivir, etc.

[02:18:49] And then when people bring up, as an example, loss of taste and smell or something like this, when you are told over and over and over and over and over and over again that you will experience loss of taste and smell, you will experience loss of taste and smell, you will experience loss of taste and smell on this date at this time and other people around you are buying into that belief, think about the fields of energy that we have around our bodies.

[02:19:11] You may actually start to manifest those symptoms based on just that idea being implanted, whether you believe that it was implanted or not, into your subconscious mind at some level where you're not even aware of it.

[02:19:26] Aaron: It's like hypnosis.

[02:19:25] Alec: Like hypnosis. Think about this too. I don't remember the exact context of this, but Daniel Roytas shared this on my podcast, and there's countless examples of people thinking that they're being given cancer treatment drugs and they're being given sugar pills, and they still have the symptoms of cancer resolving.

[02:19:42] Or on the inverse of that, the nocebo effect where someone thinks they're being given chemotherapy drugs, and their hair starts falling out, when in reality, they're just given sugar pills. Think about the power of our mind to create actual healing or to also manifest disease symptoms.

[02:20:00] There's this one example in New Zealand where this drug went off label. And when it went off label, a lot of people started getting sick, and the media started sharing that there would be these seven symptoms that you would experience if you are taking this drug and having adverse effects from it.

[02:20:18] When the reality was the full list was 20 symptoms long, but the media had only shared seven of those 20 symptoms. Can you guess what happened after they had shared, you'll experience these seven symptoms likely if you're having adverse events effects to this? All they got were reports of people experiencing those seven symptoms.

[02:20:38] The longer 20-symptom list that they just didn't share in the media, they didn't receive any reports of people taking that drug or they received very little reports of people taking that drug and experiencing those 13 other symptoms. It was only what the media had flooded via information that people would experience that people then started reporting those symptoms.

[02:20:58] So again, the power of conditioning and of our psyche to manifest real symptoms based on an impressed idea. And of course, people say, well, you know, I wasn't scared of the virus, even if it was real. I wasn't scared of COVID. Were you fearful of government tyranny? Were you fearful of uncertainty?

[02:21:15] Were you fearful about your job and losing it or losing your friend group, etc.? There are so many things that I can't sit here and say that at times during the last four years I wasn't scared. There's times I was scared shitless, and I don't think fear discriminates at that level.

[02:21:32] And then with respect to loss of taste and smell specifically, there are so many other plausible explanations for what causes that phenomenon. There's zinc deficiency. There's the reality that although this is not a novel technology, millimeter wave technology is novel in the sense that was rolled out in mass where all of our devices have it now.

[02:21:51] So that is a "novel" toxin that is amongst our environment now that may mess with olfactory function. God knows what it actually does because they've not done legitimate safety tests on it. So the likelihood that it messes with olfactory function to some degree, how many people do you know--

[02:22:07] I'll say, in my experience I've asked people this. Have you experienced eyesight issues over the last four years? And I know countless people who have shared with me that, yes, my eyesight has gotten way worse in the last four years. I'm like, yeah, this is, I think, the reality of being immersed in a field of non- native electromagnetic fields, overlapping, disharmonious frequencies.

[02:22:26] So there are plenty of other possible explanations for what causes those symptoms as an example or what causes symptoms of illness in general. And I'm happy to get into the details surrounding virology and things like this as well.

[02:22:41] Josh: Okay, because he just refuted every question I was going to ask him, so I'm just going to let him go.

[02:22:46] Aaron: You can tell he's done this before.

[02:22:35] Luke: Josh, let me add something else as someone who understands very little of this. Probably learned most of this from Alec, and so far, everything checks out to me. I can't find anything that my spidey senses refute or even research.

[02:23:01] First thing is whoever makes the claim has the burden of proof. And so there's claims being made about the nature of virology, viruses, bacteria, how we get sick, why we get sick, contagion. There's a paradigm of thought that's been present for quite a long time that just assumes all of these things as fact.

[02:23:23] And then if someone like an Alec, or the people that he interviews or such just questions those claims, then the burden of proof is thrown back on him when they're the ones making the claim that this thing exists, that it has a place in our reality. So there's that. The other thing that's really interesting to me is looking at, I couldn't even rattle them all off, but how many massive concepts or events in the world, or just paradigms of thought, whether it be in science or anything else, have we been just flat out, blatantly lied to?

[02:23:57] Just the moon landings, the presupposition of some dudes in a cave blowing up the World Trade Centers, the nature of our realm here all together. We're not really sure. We just believe the cartoons that we're shown and so on.

[02:24:16] There are so many massive things with massive implications about which we've been lied to. And so when you bring those up as well as someone going, well, wait a minute. This doesn't really add up. Then the burden of proof is then bounced back to you is having to disprove their claim.

[02:24:31] Alec: It's really no different than me saying you have no proof that unicorns with lasers for eyes lit your lawn on fire and someone's saying, well, where's your proof that unicorns with lasers for eyes don't exist? I'm like, I'm not the one that's making the claim that there is a unicorn with lasers for eyes.

[02:24:50] Now, that may sound like an infantile example there, but the reality is it's the same with respect to virology and the whole germ paradigm. The only difference is is this condition belief has permeated all facets of the society.

[02:25:05] Luke: And look at the motives too. We get Rockefeller medicine. It's like, then if I can pass my sickness onto you, then there's a drug for that. If your body's just having a natural reaction to its environment, a healthy reaction, detoxing and showing histamine symptoms, etc., whatever, then the onus of healing is then on you not being outsourced by some drugs.

[02:25:28] Because if you're being lied to, then what's the motive? Everyone has a motive when they lie. So if what Alec is saying is true, then if that's a big lie, our whole system of medicine, then what's the motive and who benefits? And you look at treating symptoms rather than the underlying cause is a massive motive and also a very financially lucrative one.

[02:25:53] So if we can trick everyone into thinking that everyone's running around with these contagions, there's always a drug for every symptom.

[02:26:01] Aaron: Forever and forever.

[02:26:02] Josh: Speaking from the entry point where I am, what about airplanes and people in close contact? The whole six-foot thing, I think we all felt was bullshit. It made absolutely no difference.

[02:26:13] Luke: Hey, those stickers saved a lot of lives.

[02:26:15] Josh: And they're still there, by the way. I went to Cali, and there's still the stickers stamped everywhere. It's crazy. But I wonder, like, how you'd say, why do we get sick?

[02:26:23] Alec: Yeah, this is a great question.

[02:26:24] Josh: What is the mechanism? And what is actually the meaning, spiritually, energetically, as to why we would even get sick in the first place? Why would the Creator create us with this facet of us that gets sick? Is it an upgrade? Is it a genetic rising? What exactly is it?

[02:26:38] Aaron: Can I lay you up and then you dunk it?

[02:26:39] Alec: Yeah, go ahead.

[02:26:40] Aaron: So I love this topic so much, and I teach about this all the time. It's a natural law that all health comes from within. And likewise, all sickness comes from within. And so there's a line in the course that I love that says, sickness does not exist. And I've wrestled with that for a long time because it's like, well, can I deny my direct experience that I get runny noses and things? What do you mean sickness doesn't exist?

[02:27:04] And I've understood the course to be saying sickness is the idea that there is an outside force called sickness that comes into my body and starts wreaking havoc. And I've got to get this entity, this evil thing, force, whatever, called sickness, out of my body. So give me the drugs. Give me the drugs. And in fact, it isn't an outside force.

[02:27:24] It isn't even a second force. There's only one acting power in the universe, which is the God power. And so going back to natural law, all sickness is just the deviation from natural law. And we take that for granted in our society, or at least the common person does, that we are literally beings of nature.

[02:27:46] We are made 100% from mother earth, and so any of the tiniest deviation from organic living on the earth will produce what we call sickness on some level, because it's a deviation from God's order. And so you look at our society today, we're drinking out of plastic.

[02:28:01] We could go on and on forever talking about all the deviations from natural law. We don't even walk on the earth, dude. Our sidewalks are living symbols of the separation consciousness from our planet. We don't even want to touch the earth.

[02:28:13] We make artificial boundaries. We're not grounding. We're not getting sunlight. We're not eating organic foods. And then we wonder why we're so damn sick. And then we get in environments with each other and you ask a question of, well, then how come I was sick? Cough, cough, sniff, sniff. Alec sat next to me on a plane. He left the plane going, cough, cough, sniff, sniff. Well, it's because the human biofield, how long does it stretch outside the body?

[02:28:38] Alec: It depends. If you're a really strong, coherent field, then it'll stretch really far.

[02:28:41] Aaron: 20 feet, at least,

[02:28:42] Alec: Yeah, very far. Right.

[02:28:43] Aaron: So all four of us, our biofields are communicating right now. And again, another thing we take totally for granted is how incomprehensibly intelligent our bodies are and that our biofield is a field of data that's constantly communicating. This is the reason that women's menstrual cycles can sync up when they live together.

[02:29:02] So all sickness comes from within. I've placed toxins into my body that are unnatural, harmful substances, chemicals, pesticides, you name it, heavy metals. My body can deal with it for a while because it's very intelligent and efficient. But there's a threshold that it reaches that it says, all right, all these toxins you keep loading into me are now interfering with my ability to function.

[02:29:26] So I've got to pause the system for a bit and get rid of these toxins. And we call that sickness as if it's a problem or as if the body is broken, and it is actually a sign of perfect health functioning in the body, that your body makes you have no appetite, feel sleepy.

[02:29:43] All the things your body does, it's like, hey, dummy, can I just get you to stop putting toxins in me for two seconds so I can get rid of them? And so if my body's in a detox process, which all sickness is a detox process.

[02:28:57] Alec: It's a solution.

[02:28:58] Aaron: It's the solution to a problem, not a problem. Alec's body is, his data is reading my data through our energy field. And if his body has similar toxins in it, my body tells his body, hey, man, I just reached a problem with this type of heavy metal, pesticide, whatever. And if you have it in your body, you should probably detox it too. So his body does a scan. Oh yeah, I have that toxin too. And so then his body goes into a detox.

[02:30:21] We're herd animals. Our bodies communicate with each other. And so it looks like I just victimized Alec. He was perfectly healthy until I came along, and I ruined it for him. So how fear-inducing and controllable is that narrative? That if they can say all sickness comes from outside the body, you're a victim to it.

[02:30:41] There's nothing you can do about it. You can be perfectly healthy, fit, you eat healthy, and you just walk down the Walmart aisle and someone sneezes on you, and now you're sick with COVID. And that's why all the anger, the rage at each other. The division was from this one belief that I can make you sick because your health's not in your hands.

[02:31:00] Alec: Right. You said you were going to do a leap. Dude, that was a 360 win, bro.

[02:31:04] Aaron: I laid it out better though.

[02:31:06] Josh: That was going to be 360--

[02:31:07] Alec: That was Vince Carter in the dark corner.

[02:31:11] Aaron: It's one of my favorite topics.

[02:3112] Luke: That was really good. I've never heard it explained like that. That's pretty cool. Yeah, that makes a lot of sense.

[02:31:17] Josh: It's hard to argue when you see it that way.

[02:31:19] Alec: Can I add to that too? Because 100%, exactly what you just said. But when it comes to symptoms, I want to emphasize again what he said with respect to it being the solution. I attribute all symptoms of literally every kind being the body doing exactly what it was designed to do to heal.

[02:31:41] And oftentimes, your level of symptoms that you will experience is directly related to the level of toxicity, whether that's physical toxicity or metaphysical toxicity relating to emotions or non-native electromagnetic fields, etc., that is now requiring you to undo that conditioning, so to speak. So you're going to experience symptoms to come back to homeostasis.

[02:32:02] And then another interesting thing, what happens to trees in the fall? They shed their leaves. And it's like a conservation of energy, you could look at it that way.

[02:32:12] Aaron: Are they getting sick?

[02:32:12] Alec: Are they getting sick? No. So likewise, when we have quote flu season, we're entering a time when our bodies are going to be exposed to less sunlight. We're going to be sweating thus detoxifying less.

[02:32:20] We're inside immersed in a field of non-native electromagnetic fields, immersed in an environment with toxic glues in our home, living not in harmony with nature, and then because our bodies are not force detoxing through these daily mechanisms that we're oftentimes experiencing in the spring and summer, etc., then our bodies are going to have to force itself via throwing up, via vomiting, via diarrhea, via sneezing, via coughing, having a fever, etc., in order to detoxify.

[02:32:49] It's like a forced detoxification of the body because the body's not exposed to these harmonious things as frequently as they are in the summertime, and they're exposed to more disharmonious things coming into the winter months.

[02:33:02] Josh: There's so much there. I think everybody just got double red pilled on that one. The way I think about it is, okay, there's also an internal governance where I would choose, either consciously or unconsciously, to get around certain people, because, like that system you described, it would know that it was time for me to get an upgrade, or it would know it was time for me to purge or detoxify in some way.

[02:33:21] And then there's also just being intelligent, like, hey, if you're underslept, if you're not eating well, if you've been noticing that you feel super tired, don't get on an airplane and freaking travel for 13 hours. I notice when I don't sleep enough, that's when I get sick. And it's because there's already a part of me that's been screaming at me and barking at me, like, hey, Josh, you might want to just chill.

[02:33:42] And then you add children and family life and business into that, and it's like, well, how do I do it all? That's the question that comes up for me a lot, is how do I do all of this without burning me out? How do I go through life and navigate all my responsibilities and my dreams and goals without hurting myself?

[02:33:58] And every time I get sick, I always say something like this. You know what? I feel like that was going to happen. I knew that I was going to get sick because I've been burning the fucking candle at three ends.

[02:34:08] Alec: Right. And then isn't it so interesting that for the overwhelming majority of society, we then look at that experience and say, oh, it must've been a virus. I must've caught something from someone else. When, just as you're sharing here, you see it through a new lens, it's like, no, it makes total sense.

[02:34:20] I was pretty stressed out. I wasn't sleeping well. I got in a huge argument with my wife, and that's why I'm expressing these symptoms. It makes total sense, and then it shows you that it's all a function of something happening inside of here rather than something happening out there to you.

[02:34:08] Josh: I wonder how you guys feel about this. So I notice that when I am not sleeping enough and when I'm just stressed and just allowing the dragon to blow fire on me, I get to this place where I either make a conscious decision to just push work and push it out. Even if there is responsibilities that I have to fulfill that I want to fulfill, it's this intuitiveness.

[02:34:57] It's almost like I'm sharpening a sword about how I get to behave in life so that I'm just well. And there are some times, probably actually every time, not sometimes, that I get sick or that I get this upgrade or I go through this process, and I'm really grateful to just chill.

[02:35:13] Even though it sucks being sick because you're just hacking shit, it's pretty fucking gnarly to get sick, but I just like having three days of rest. And so there is some truth in me that's coming aware about this right now, but I wonder from the other side, is it also a good idea, even if there is no such thing as getting sick, to know one's responsibility load or, said in biology, their allostatic load, if I'm already super stressed, and if I'm in Wi-Fi, and if I'm doing all these things, isn't it also smart to not be around people that you know are sick?

[02:35:45] Alec: Well, it could be because I always take it back to a function of the self. And again, a strong coherent field will overtake and train a weakened coherent field. And what Eileen has shown with her work is that when you are experiencing symptoms of "illness," your field collapses in on itself to conserve energy.

[02:36:05] So I don't subscribe to the idea that you necessarily need to avoid being around other people when they're sick because as long as you are doing what you need to do to maintain health, then you're not going to get sick. And if you "get sick" by being around other people who are sick, that means that needed to happen.

[02:36:28] That means you've reached a certain threshold of toxicity, just like Aaron said, that needs to come out. And again, I think a lot of people that have adopted this terrain paradigm lend too much credence to the idea that, okay, it's not a virus. It's just this bioresonance thing, and now every time I get sick, it's because I was around someone else who was resonating with me. And it's like, no, no.

[02:36:49] Overwhelming majority of examples, it's shared exposure to non-native electromagnetic fields, shared emotional trauma, shared malnutrition, or a shared toxicity, or a unique combination of all those three that leads two or more people in the same space to get sick.

[02:37:05] Now, again, I understand, I have two kids, that that is not fitting to describe every single scenario. But if you look at it from this lens, again, going back to the countless experimental attempts to demonstrate the disease is spread via the fluids of a sick person have failed. So, okay, that's off the table now.

[02:37:25] So now we need to begin this really fun process of exploring the true nature of disease, and that's where we share ideas like bioresonance. That may be one of the things, and I always say that to people in my presentations, just like you brought up the menstrual cycle example. How do you feel someone lying to you?

[02:37:43] How do you feel that someone has good vibes? How can you feel someone talking about you even if they're 7,000 miles away? What is that? And I think whatever that is is something that directly relates to the manifestation of health or disease, and we have totally overlooked that because we're so myopically focused on this disproven idea that disease is spread via the fluids of a sick person.

[02:38:08] Josh: So then is spontaneous remission just someone having an elevation that's accelerated in consciousness?

[02:38:14] Alec: I would say so.

[02:38:15] Aaron: Definitely can be.

[02:38:16] Alec: Yeah, in a very simple way to put it. Yeah.

[02:38:17] Josh: Look at the Heal documentary with Peter Crone or Kelly Noonan Gores. There's countless examples of people getting-- even my brother, Scott Jackson, shout out to Scott, one of my mentors and friends.

[02:38:27] He's going through a cancer healing journey right now, and he's had fucking profound-- he sat in that chair and cried. It was the most amazing healing for him. And so I think we just get caught in this construct of like, well, if I can control it and put a mask on and not be around anyone, then I'm safe, safe. But we're never safe. Safety is a fucking illusion.

[02:38:47] Luke: There's another interesting phenomenon to that. Similar to women in their menstrual cycles is the phenomenon of contagious yawning. If I get really tired right now and I start yawning, you guys will start yawning. What the fuck is that? Again, I always think, I always to think--

[02:39:07] Aaron: Even you saying yawning makes me want to yawn right now.

[02:39:10] Josh: I want to yawn right now.

[02:39:09] Luke: Okay, going back to what I always say, hunter gather tribes, 50, 60 people, if you guys are trekking with all your shit from this piece of land to this piece of land over here, and nature determines that it's time for you guys to stop and camp for the night and rest, one person is going to start yawning, and then everyone else is going to start yawning and get tired, and then you're like, all right, let's drop our shit here because we all need to rest.

[02:39:30] It's like nature's way of entrainment where there's something or someone that knows the need is now to sleep and rest, but if everyone doesn't do it, it won't work because you'll be out of sync in your travels or whatever your endeavor is.

[02:39:45] But there's no germs being transmitted from me to you. If I start yawning, I didn't infect you with tired genes, DNA or something. It's an energetic thing.

[02:39:56] Alec: Can I share one more example real quick? Because this example is incredible. I know you've interviewed Veda. So Veda Austin, for those who are unfamiliar, has basically taken Dr. Masaru Moto's work with water and expanded upon it and made it accessible to lay men and women.

[02:40:11] Meaning that what she does is she'll write, let's say, gratitude on a piece of paper in English or in Spanish or play a song that represents gratitude or show water a picture that represents gratitude, and I'm talking water in a small Petri dish.

[02:40:22] She then takes that water and freezes it and freezes it for roughly five minutes and 20 seconds, where the bottom layer has started to freeze, but there's still a liquid layer on the top, so it's in the middle of the full freezing process.

[02:40:53] Dumps the water off, and visible to the naked eye is water's own artistic expression of or actual symbolic language of whatever it was just exposed to. To the point that she's documented what she calls hydroglyphs were, repetitively, when she shows let's say love or fear or something like that, water will always reflect back the exact same symbol.

[02:40:56] And what's incredible about her work is that this is being repeated by other people who she teaches it to in workshops all around the world. So we talk about empirical evidence. This is really the definition of that. So if we take that, and again, this is a leap because we don't have any direct studies related to human beings on this, but just play with me for a second.

[02:41:15] Given that our bodies are 99% water by molecule and two thirds water by weight, per the work of Gerald Pollack and Gilbert Ling and Veda Austin and other people, structured water or coherent water is able to transmit, and receive, and restore, and reflect back information at a much higher capacity than incoherent water.

[02:41:27] And our bodies are more than likely made up of coherent fourth phase water. So given that, is it that far of a stretch to say that our bodies, when they've reached a certain threshold of toxicity, just like Aaron is saying, also are able to communicate that via the water in my body to your body?

[02:41:58] Especially when Veda did an experiment where she took one free range egg, set it next to a caged egg, froze the albumen, and when she typically freezes the albumen of the free-range egg, it has this beautiful crystalline structure.

[02:41:13] In the caged egg, when she freezes the albumen, when it's by itself, it has no coherence to its structure. But by setting the free range egg next to the caged egg, then cracking them open and freezing the albumen, what she found was the free range egg still maintained its coherence in its structure.

[02:42:29] The caged egg now had more coherence in its structure just by being in proximity to the free-range egg. She's repeated that same experiment where she takes one free range egg, surrounds it with 10. Same exact effect-- the free-range egg still has that coherence in its albumen when frozen.

[02:42:46] The other caged eggs, just by being in proximity to the one free range egg, now have more coherence in their structure. She set one egg to the side as a control. No coherence.

[02:42:53] She's now repeated again, she just told me this, with 22 caged eggs and one free range egg. The free-range egg cracked open frozen with the albumen complete coherence in the structure unimpacted by these caged eggs. The caged eggs, all of them, now had more coherence in their structure just by being in proximity to the free-range eggs.

[02:43:16] So think about that when we apply it to human beings. Even for those of us who are holistically aware, we are living in a way that I would say is not ideal for human beings to live. Living in homes immersed in non-native electromagnetic fields, and the glues in our homes, and things like this, but I think most importantly, not living amongst like-minded community consistently too.

[02:43:40] And so when we're living this way, when we come into a relationship with each other, when we're around each other for periods of time, we call that getting sick when we express symptoms, but it's really our body's just doing exactly what it was designed to do together to come back to that state of harmony again.

[02:44:01] And that's where you look at a guru in India where people will share that they have just sat next to a guru, and just by being in his presence it helps heal them. That represents that free range egg. And that's why I always go back to the strong coherent field will overtake and train a weakened coherent field, but we're all just bringing each other back into resonance, back into homeostasis.

[02:44:23] Josh: Well, it sounds like we need to get some chickens. I'm going to get chickens on my new land for sure, and they will be free range.

[02:44:31] Luke: I love Veda's work. It's insane. I have to share just one of her experiments that's super mind blowing. Maybe not as much as that because it's not as relevant to the conversation, but my favorite one of all, she'll do words or pictures for the water, and then the water will sort of reflect that.

[02:44:43] The coolest one to me, she takes the water in the Petri dish, plays Led Zeppelin's Stairway to Heaven at the water, puts it in the freezer for five minutes, takes it out, and the freaking ice makes a staircase. Not like, I don't know, I can see a staircase in that, but you show it to a five-year-old and go, what's that? They go, stairs. That obvious.

[02:45:10] This world is so beyond-- as humans, we're so arrogant to even think we can understand the nature of reality like this. It's just like, come on. That's why scientism is so repugnant to me, because of its arrogance, and its closed mindedness, and its presupposition, that it is the only way. It is the law. There's no changing it. There's no refuting it.

[02:45:33] That is the opposite of science. One thing I would like to throw out to try and block your tee up and your slam dunk, Aaron and Alec's, one of the comebacks to opening up this conversation is, how can all of these scientists, all these virologists all these biologists, all these MDs, all these universities, all these laboratories, all this research for 50, 60 years on this topic or maybe even longer, be wrong?

[02:46:09] Like when you look at cosmology and things like the moon landing and what we're told about the nature of our universe and the sun and our place in it as earthlings, how could all of those astrophysicists and all of those people also be wrong? That's the thing. Even for me, I'm like, yeah, but how could they all buy into it? And have like their rebuttals to a paradigm breaking idea like we're discussing.

[02:46:41] Alec: Yeah, I love this question. And typically, the people who are asking me this just because that's who I interact with are people in the "freedom community," or the holistic health community. And my answer to that is always, well, do you think all doctors were in on it over the last four years?

[02:46:56] All doctors were in on it? No, of course not. That's what their answer is, always. No, of course not. They were just misled to believe this paradigm, and that's the case. With respect to virology as an example, that was a result of John Franklin Enders and his experiments surrounding "isolating" the "measles virus".

[02:47:16] And what's interesting is if you look into those experiments, he did it what could be considered a "proper control experiment." There's some issues with that which I just recorded an episode previous to this, which I can share with you to put in the show notes with Dr. Mark Bailey where he emphasizes that it wasn't a proper control.

[02:47:34] But point being John Franklin Enders took throat, blood, and poop samples from people who were sick with the symptoms of measles which were real symptoms, and then proceeded to add a bunch of crazy substances to it all on a rhesus monkey kidney cell.

[02:47:52] The cell broke down experiencing what is called a cytopathic effect, and then he pointed to the particles and said, hey, these are viruses. What's interesting though is he did the exact same procedure except for he did not include any throat, blood, or poop samples, meaning that there was no possible source of "measles virus" present.

[02:48:09] And what he found was the exact same cytopathic effect occurred, meaning the exact same effect that they then point to and claim those are virus particles occurred without any possible source of "measles virus" present, which then indicates that this is simply a misinterpretation, misidentification of what's going on with these lab techniques.

[02:48:34] And that was literally in his paper that then paved the way for all of modern virology. And somehow, that little piece where he did somewhat of a proper control experiment was completely overlooked. And it's because thereafter, he ended up winning the Nobel Prize for helping to develop the measles vaccine, and then just ushered in this whole paradigm.

[02:48:55] And it's just one of many examples where an entire field of study was built off of something with a fundamentally flawed foundation that the overwhelming majority of people within that field never went back to question the foundational premise and just went about their lives accepting it as if it was a well-established, irrefutable fact.

[02:49:19] So that's how this has happened. Are all virologists and molecular biologists in on this grand scheme to manipulate us? Absolutely not. They're well-intentioned people that have simply been misled to believe what is happening in a lab setting reflects anything that's going on in reality.

[02:49:37] Luke: That's a great analogy with Convid because we probably all know doctors that still believe that it existed, or that it exists.

[02:49:46] Alec: Or that vaccines are good.

[02:49:48] Luke: Right. And they're really integrous, solid, loving, caring, highly intelligent, if not brilliant people, but they're not doing it on purpose. They're not part of some great conspiracy. And you can see that, as you said, as some of them start to wake up, then they're like, oh, it was just the paradigm that I had bought into that was in air.

[02:50:10] So if you're working from a false premise to begin with, it's like you can build any model on top of that, as you described, because there's certain facts that were either omitted purposefully or just negligently that would have crushed the model at its foundation.

[02:50:25] But because they were ignored and not seen by many, then this entire foundation of virology and germ theory was just created on these suppositions from the beginning. And so it just keeps replicating. And that's why we have universities and all these medical schools and all this stuff that can't all be bad people that are trying to trick us.

[02:50:42] Josh: They've never been taught any other explanation. They've only been taught the one model. So it's like you expect every single doctor to figure out on their own terrain theory by themselves. They don't even know it exists. So how could they believe any other way?

[02:50:55] Alec: And this is another problem with respect to science and what "science" has become, is it's all based in simulations and models that are easy to create the effect of something being real without actually being real, when true science is observing a natural phenomenon and trying to figure out what is the cause of that natural phenomenon. That's science.

[02:51:15] Josh: And said in a different way, true science is founded on the Socratic method which disproves or approves a theorem that is actually tested without bias. That's real fucking science. So when people say, well, it's science, bro, there's neuroscientists, huge people saying it's science, and they even like dip their chin. It's science.

[02:51:37] I want to say to them like, have you forgotten your science roots about what science really is? It's where you disprove or approve without bias. Actually, the Socratic method goes from both sides and then flushes out the truthful results. That's fucking science. Science isn't, I have this vested interest in pharmacology because of financial interest that allows me to have this vantage point of self-righteousness.

[02:52:00] Alec: Spot on. And it's also not models and simulations, though. It is trying to ascertain what is the cause of a natural phenomenon, meaning that you observe something happening in nature and you try to figure out what is the cause of that thing.

[02:52:13] And that's what the scientific method is, is you have an observed natural phenomenon, that's your dependent variable, and then you try to figure out what is the cause of that natural phenomenon. That's what the scientific method is.

[02:52:25] Aaron: Then you try to disprove your hypothesis.

[02:52:26] Josh: Exactly.

[02:52:27] Aaron: Is that what virology does? Do they try to disprove their hypothesis?

[02:52:32] Josh: Who funds the studies? The studies are funded, almost 100% of the time by vested interest. It has a product for sale that isn't really interested in the truthful sides of disproving or approving at all. It's not even part of the equation because that's what fuels the study.

[02:52:46] Aaron: Exactly. And this is what Alec always talks about when he describes the fact that no virus has ever been isolated in a lab setting. It's because it can't be isolated because it doesn't exist. So if their theory is sickness is a virus passing from one host to another host, then they should try to disprove that, and they don't. They just try to prove it over and over and over, and they're like, well, we basically proved it.

[02:53:11] Alec: And this is the thing. To your point, it's an unfalsifiable hypothesis because they have multiple escape routes for why they cannot fulfill their own criteria, meaning they cannot fulfill the scientific method. Because what they'll say when--

[02:53:25] Aaron: But Stefan did though.

[02:53:26] Alec: Well, he falsified theirs, but then they still have multiple escape routes within that.

[02:53:31] Josh: So you're telling me I can eat butter.

[02:53:34] Alec: Yes, you can eat butter. Raw butter.

[02:53:36] Luke: To the idea of, again, not versus, but you have two paradigms. You have germ theory, then you have terrain theory. One of the ways I think about terrain theory and how all of this starts to make sense to me is let's say we slice my arm open right now. So we've got a terrain on my arm.

[02:53:56] And I pour rubbing alcohol on it, and I bandage it up, and it's sterilized. It's going to heal just fine. Take that same cut, the same terrain, wipe a bunch of fresh cat shit on it and just let it fester out in the sun for three days.

[02:54:07] Josh: Good visual.

[02:54:08] Luke: Now I have a disease of my arm. But it's only because the terrain was hospitable to an overgrowth of pathogenic bacteria, and therefore my arm is going to rot off.

[02:54:08] Alec: This is the thing that's interesting because I previously thought that too. But even if you look into the idea of "pathogenic bacteria", in every example where they've taken let's say even tuberculosis and injected into a healthy person or put it on a healthy cell without any other sources of genetic material, it was not able to induce symptoms of illness.

[02:54:38] So what we're now understanding is that bacteria is pleomorphic, meaning that it will change size, shape, type, depending on the pH level of the tissue in which the environment that it's in. So when you're taking cat shit and putting that on your arm, it's not the bacteria in the cat shit.

[02:54:57] The bacteria is there to remediate the cat shit. It's that there's decaying tissue. Because what happens when we ingest toxins or any other life? Those toxins are excreted through our poop, and then that tissue itself becomes dead tissue.

[02:55:13] Aaron: It's waste material.

[02:55:13] Alec: It's waste material. And rubbing that on your skin is going to induce symptoms.

[02:55:18] Aaron: It's no different than drinking pesticides.

[02:55:21] Alec: Exactly. Yeah, so it's not the bacteria because when they have taken-- even right now, you have streptococcus bacteria, staphylococcus bacteria on your arm and in your throat.

[02:55:30] Luke: What are you trying to say?

[02:55:32] Alec: All of us do.

[02:55:33] Aaron: Don't come at me like that, bro.

[02:55:34] Alec: All of us do. But the point is you don't presently have a strep infection or staphylococcus bacteria infection. And why is that? It's because those aren't the cause of illness. Those things proliferate in an attempt to remediate the toxic tissue. So it's akin to having firefighters at the scene of a fire.

[02:55:50] If I was a little kid and I saw-- I live near a place where there's a bunch of forest fires, and every time I see a fire, there's a bunch of little men out there hanging out around the fire. So then I start to think, ah, these must be the cause of the fire.

[02:56:06] When in reality, they're mistaken as the cause. They're simply there to remediate the fire. Because they're at the site, they're mistaken to be the cause of the fire, just like bacteria at the site of illness are mistaken as the cause of illness but are there to remediate the toxicity that occurred previously.

[02:56:25] Luke: That's cool.

[02:56:26] Aaron: Body's cool, isn't it?

[02:56:27] Josh: We've covered some fucking terrain on this podcast, man. What I was thinking about was the bloodletting back in the day. The barber poles were originally bloodletting poles, and you'd go to get healed by bleeding out. People would die. That was accepted as science in the day. So all science gets to be put under a microscope of truth, and I think that's really what, if anything, came up for y'all, and you're like, fuck this terrain versus virus theory.

[02:56:52] At least know that science has been claimed to be the only thing that can be trusted, which then was later disproved. At least have an open mind to that. We covered some ground, y'all. What did we miss?

[02:57:04] Luke: Urine therapy.

[02:57:06] Josh: They can listen to your pod with John.

[02:57:09] Alec: I'm a practicer of that.

[02:57:10] Aaron: Same.

[02:57:11] Luke: I want to say, on the fence, I did it maybe 20 years ago or something because I read this book called, I think, Your Own Perfect Medicine, and it was very compelling. So I started taking a couple of shots here and there. I don't know. I didn't really see any noticeable effects, but there was really nothing wrong.

[02:57:30] But I interviewed Dr. Ed Group the other day, and this dude dropped the history on it, the science on it. It was extremely compelling to the point where I am going to start again. I just keep forgetting to put a shot glass in my bathroom. I'm so out of it when I wake up in the morning. I'll think of it a couple of hours later. I'm like, ah, I missed the first morning stream.

[02:57:52] Aaron: Dude. I did it every day for a year last year.

[02:57:56] Luke: Really?

[02:57:06] Josh: How'd you feel?

[02:57:06] Aaron: 365. Awesome. There's this ancient Hindu text, 5,000-year-old text called the Shivambu Kalpa.

[02:58:02] Luke: Ed Group was talking about this. Yeah.

[02:57:56] Aaron: It's hilarious, bro. It's Shiva. I wear earrings by the way, an homage to Shiva. Big student of Shiva, but Shiva in this book--

[02:58:14] Luke: Dude, you should have got my Shiva is My Homeboy shirt.

[02:58:17] Aaron: I didn't see it.

[02:58:56] Josh: That's your new shirt.

[02:58:18] Aaron: I would have bought it right away.

[02:58:21] Luke: I have one here, but it's not an XL.

[02:58:22] Aaron: Take my money, bro.

[02:58:23] Luke: Yeah, I'll get you one.

[02:58:24] Aaron: Sick. Well, so it's this book where Shiva is talking to Parvati, and she's like, Shiva, you've been keeping your secret of enlightenment from me for so long. Please tell me. What is your secret to enlightenment? And he's like, I'll never tell you the ultimate secret. And it goes on, and she starts to threaten him of like, if you don't tell me then I'm not going to cook for you or whatever.

[02:58:44] And he's like, I'll never tell you what the secret is. And eventually, she gets to the point where she's like, if you don't tell me what your ultimate secret to enlightenment is, I'm going to stop sleeping with you.

[02:58:52] And he's like, all right, here's what it is. I drink my urine. And she's like, tell me more. And so he goes on this dialogue of like, I think it's year by year. It might be month by month. I think it's by month. Here's the effects that will happen in consciousness after one month if you drink your urine first thing in the morning. And he goes down how it begins to amplify consciousness.

[02:59:15] Josh: We might've lost everyone.

[02:59:16] Aaron: Probably. We should edit this part out.

[02:59:17] Josh: If they're with us at this point, they're with us.

[02:59:21] Aaron: They're freaking with us.

[02:59:23] Luke: That's why I threw it in there. They deserve this nugget. They deserve this golden nugget, no pun intended.

[02:59:26] Aaron: I'll just say this. So your body is an electromagnetic machine. We're full of electricity. And the idea is when you drink your urine, your urine's not waste products, but it's actually the leftover good stuff that your body can't use.

[02:59:41] Josh: This is what I was going to ask you. Okay, so it's totally different than fecal matter.

[02:59:43] Aaron: It's the opposite.

[02:59:41] Alec: It's based on the idea that kidneys are not processing waste, they're blood filtration.

[02:59:49] Aaron: Yes. And now I'll say this, you shouldn't drink your urine if you're not healthy. Because if your kidneys aren't healthy, you could get some bad stuff in your kidneys. Once you are healthy and you're recycling, it's called looping, your urine, the charge builds up in the urine. First of all, you're peeing out a lot of stem cells in your urine.

[03:00:10] So it's like free stem cell therapy, but you've got vitamins, minerals, all kinds of good stuff in there. And every time you loop it through, it gains in charge more and more. So it's like, you're drinking something with a higher frequency every time. And so it actually will elevate your consciousness.

[03:00:25] And what's funny is we have a mutual friend named Rodney who's known for being the urine therapy guy. And Alec can tell this better than I can, but he lived with Rodney, for how long?

[03:00:35] Alec: 30 days.

03:00:35] Aaron: Okay. 30 days. And Rodney was like, bro, I'm always high. He's from Boston. He's like, I'm always high because I'm always looping. And Alec is like, ah, that's funny, bro.

[03:00:43] Alec: This is actually a funny story to end the podcast.

[03:00:46] Aaron: Yeah, this is perfect.

[03:00:46] Josh: Let's go.

[03:00:46] Alec: So I had first heard of urine therapy in early 2020. I'm like, what the hell is that? That's too much for me. And then I start becoming friends with Rodney, and he's sharing about it with me, and I see how he is, and he's like super shredded. He was going bald in some spots. He regrew some of his hair, or so he claimed, and his teeth are perfectly white. They look like veneers, and he's just a high energy guy.

[03:01:11] I'm like, there's no way that he's basically only thriving off of fruit and drinking his own pee, as he claimed. And then I lived with him for 30 days, and bro, he is 100% doing that. No BS. He barely eats any food other than water dense fruits like watermelon, and papaya, and things like this.

[03:01:34] And I never saw him once drink a sip of water. He was only drinking his own pee. And in the morning, he would take two-year-old aged urine, it's probably like four-year-old age by now, and spray his whole body with it. His skin is as soft as a baby's skin.

[03:01:51] Aaron: He's pretty extreme.

[03:01:51] Alec: It's a little bit extreme. Because I will say, and Rodney, I love you, but I still fully hold true to this, that when you spray that aged urine on you, you smell so bad for 30 to 45 minutes. But in his defense, his skin is perfect. It's perfect, bro.

[03:02:07] Josh: Maybe if I was single, I would just go on a date and not smell cat pee instead to attract the right partner.

[03:02:13] Aaron: It has a golden glow, if we might say.

[03:02:15] Alec: Yeah, right.

[03:03:16] Luke: Ed Group was dropping some stuff on me in relation to the stem cells that if you take the urine and you treat it with sunlight, like UV light or even red light over the course of 30 days, you exponentially multiply the stem cells.

[03:02:27] Alec: Yeah, that's why it's aged. So Rodney's is probably four years aged by now, and it smells putrid. But again, his teeth are perfectly white. And before we'd work out, and he's an animal in the gym, super fit, he would snort his age urine as pre workout, and we're just crushing is. This is the funny part of the story. So we would play horse every day. Just like basketball, play horse.

[03:02:50] And there was one day we were playing horse and Rodney hadn't eaten anything in a few days at this point. And mid game of horse, he grabs a ball and closes his eyes and goes, whoa. And I'm looking at him. I'm like, what? And he's just holding the ball, and he's tracing something in the air with his fingers, with his eyes closed.

[03:03:07] And he's like, oh shit. Whoa. And I'm like bro, are you good? He's like, bro, I'm having this like euphoric trip from looping and not eating, from fasting and just drinking my pee. And I'm like, all right. And he's like, yeah, bro. I'm pretty much high all the time, high on my own supply. And I'm like, all right, cool.

[03:03:26] So set that aside, about a month and a half later, I've been practicing it pretty regularly, but only drinking one or two cups a day.

[03:03:38] Luke: Cups, the measurement?

[03:03:39] Alec: No, probably a mason jar.

[03:03:42] Luke: Oh shit. Ed was telling me it's two ounces in the morning. I was like, a shot glass? I could do that.

[03:03:47] Alec: Yeah.

[03:03:52] Josh: Can you put something inside it to chase the taste?

[03:03:55] Alec: Stevia.

[03:03:56] Luke: Yeah, yeah.

[03:03:57] Aaron: You can chase it with like orange juice or something.

[03:03:59] Alec: Yeah. But if you're eating a lot of fruit, it really does not taste bad.

[03:04:02] Aaron: It's tasteless.

[03:04:04] Alec: It really does not taste bad. I can actually say that.

[03:04:04] Luke: And if you want to make it more visually appealing, you can use methylene blue, and it'll look like a nice fruity drink.

[03:04:11] Josh: Put an umbrella in it.

[03:04:13] Aaron: Looping methylene blue.

[03:04:14] Alec: But so I sit down this day where I had a lot of work to get done because I was leaving the next day for about a week. And so out of laziness and out of just ease, because I had a lot of work to get done, I didn't really leave my office.

[03:04:30] So I decided just to loop and fast, and it was not very intentional, but I was looping and fasting. And I sit down for my last task of the day, at this point I probably had seven or eight glasses of my own pee and a little bit of water here and there. But I sit down for my last task, and this guy's interviewing me. I think his name's Robert Edwards.

[03:04:51] And within five minutes of me sitting down during the podcast, you know that moment when you're having a bad trip and you look at your hand and it like doesn't feel like it's your hand? You know what I'm talking about?

[03:05:02] Luke: Very well. Yeah. That happened this morning before we recorded.

[03:05:07] Alec: That experience started to set in. Again, I didn't have the awareness that it was anything related to me being high from my own supply, so to speak. I thought I was getting sick from being in my office all day immersed in a field of non-native electromagnetic field.

[03:05:22] And so I'm starting to freak out, but this dude's interviewing me. And I'm answering and forgetting what I'm saying as I'm answering because I'm high as hell, but also starting to get clammy and sweat a little bit. Finally, after 40 minutes, I just can't take it anymore. I literally just reach around to the back of the computer mid interview while he's asking me questions and just turn it off.

[03:05:41] Just turn it off. And then run upstairs to my wife. And I'm like, I'm freaking out. Do I look pale? And she's like, no, not at all. I'm like, I don't know what's going on. I feel like I'm getting sick. Maybe it's because the Wi-Fi and stuff. I don't know. And she's like, well, did you drink more pee than usual?

[03:05:56] And I was like, I think so. Maybe. I mean, yeah, I did. And I didn't really eat much. And she's like, call Rodney. I called Rodney. He's like, bro, I told you. I'm high off my own supply all the time. That's just how I live. And so once he called on my fears, I was able to go back and finish the podcast. But point being that I legitimately got high off of my own supply and didn't even realize it. So that's the story.

[03:06:19] Aaron: So after he told me that story, which was hilarious, I was like, I got to try this. So the next day I fasted and looped probably about five or six times. And sure enough, right around noon-- have you ever done microdosing psilocybin?

[03:06:33] Luke: Today.

[03:06:34] Aaron: Today? So you know when you take a little too much and you start to get a little come up? Oh, I'm feeling kind of high right now.

[03:06:40] Luke: Yeah. It's very uncomfortable. Not a good feeling.

[03:06:42] Aaron: It was exactly like that. It was exactly like taking a little too much microdosing and starting to get some trails to my hands and feeling very high.

[03:06:51] Like, wow, you really can get high off your own urine. So that just goes to show you like what is in the urine that can do that to your consciousness. Maybe there's some DMT in there, or it activates DMT. I don't know. But there's a lot of benefits to it even beyond the health benefits of which there are many.

[03:07:07] There's a lot of spiritual benefits to it, which is what the Shivambu Kalpa is all about. But I watched a video of a guy who was blind who healed his eyes and gained his eyesight back by using aged urine drops, solar-charged aged urine. He did it for 30 or 90 days, 10 times a day, and his eyesight grew back. So it's powerful medicine.

[03:07:28] Luke: Wow. One thing I recently learned about it, Josh, is that you guys are fucking nuts.

[03:07:34] Alec: I'm a sponge today.

[03:07:35] Luke: One thing I learned about recently is it's also a way to sort of create your own vaccine or antidote specifically if you get bit by a rattlesnake or stung by a scorpion or even stung by a bee. And we know this because many people are aware if you get stung by a jellyfish in the ocean, what do they say? Oh, pour your pee on it, or pee on it.

[03:07:55] But if legend has it that because you're producing antidotes in your body, that if you get say a bit by a snake, if you wait about 15 minutes for-- this is not medical advice.

[03:08:08] Josh: Nothing we've said today is medical advice.

[03:08:09] Aaron: Nor legal advice.

[03:08:10] Luke: But if you wait about 15 minutes for the venom to be in your bloodstream and you just sweat it out and then drink your pee after it has the venom in it, it actually creates an antivenom. This was another Ed Group thing. And he referenced like the factual data on why this is the case, which I don't remember that part of it.

[03:08:27] But it just stuck out because I was like, I live in Texas. There's a lot of critters here. I'm going to take mental note of that, and I will definitely be trying that should a critter ever decide to sting or bite me.

[03:08:37] Alec: You know Chad Ochocinco who played for the Bengals wide receiver?

[03:08:40] Luke: No, I don't.

[03:08:41] Alec: Okay Yeah, really famous wide receiver played for the Bengals who was known for basically never getting injured. And he shared this a couple of times on podcast and also on ESPN being interviewed by people that what do you do anytime you'd get a sore ankle is take all of his teammates’ urine and just soak his feet in their pee.

[03:08:58] Luke: Really?

[03:08:59] Alec: Yeah.

[03:09:00] Josh: He said that on ESPN?

[03:09:01] Alec: Yeah, he said that.

[03:09:03] Josh: I wonder if they left that part at the interview.

[03:09:04] Aaron: And back to you, John.

[03:09:07] Josh: The guy's just like this.

[03:09:09] Aaron: Same with Leona Machida. You know Leona Machida?

[03:09:11] Luke: Uh-uh.

[03:09:12] Aaron: A UFC fighter, famous mixed martial artist. Leona Machida? Yeah. He said the same thing about why he doesn't get injured is he drinks his urine every day. You can do a urine compress on a cut or something, on a wound. Because it's full of stem cells, it's amazing how much faster you heal.

[03:09:30] Josh: Think about what happens with jellyfish or if you get stung by a stingray. First thing we're taught to do, pee on it.

[03:09:34] Alec: Yeah, just like he said.

[03:09:35] Luke: That's what I just said, Josh.

[03:09:36] Josh: I'm giving you the Cali vibe of the ray stinging you.

[03:09:43] Luke: I'm just playing with you.

[03:09:44] Josh: Dude, this has been so fucking mind opening and heart opening, and both. So thank you all for coming.

[03:09:50] Aaron: The Quadcast.

[03:09:51] Alec: Thanks, man. This is awesome.

[03:09:53] Josh: Dude, this is the mega Quadcast really. By the way, we surpassed three hours and 33 minutes.

[03:09:57] Alec: Oh my goodness.

[03:09:58] Luke: I was saying before one hour per guy, so we're still cutting it short, but if you want to end, we can.

[03:10:05] Josh: I don't want to end, but we have lives outside of this incredible fucking discovery that has been this podcast.

[03:10:12] Alec: We're just doing, man.

[03:10:14] Josh: We're just doing round two again at some point. Personally for me, it's on the mic flag. The only reason I really care about wisdom is so I can be well. That's the only reason why I care about it so deeply.

[03:10:24] I want to be a great father. I want to be a great man, great partner, great future husband. I want to be a great businessman. I just want to be the best version of Josh I can be. And so one of the things I love most about podcasting is understanding how do you all define wellness. Because wellness is this fleeting thing.

[03:10:42] It's a marketing term now. It's almost watered down in a way. But the way I see wellness is just this harmony within myself in all the five sides of the way I show up, my physical, my mental, my spiritual, and financial. That's how I define it. If I have harmony and all those things, I'm probably going to lead a pretty good life.

[03:10:59] I'm probably going to be a pretty good person to be around. But I wonder, we'll start with you, how do you define wellness? How do you define wellbeing?

[03:11:06] Luke: I would say, by degree, the more well I am is directly correlated to the level of love that I'm able to embody.

[03:11:24] Josh: Beauty. Beauty.

[03:11:25] Alec: That was great.

[03:11:26] Josh: Yeah. Thank you, man.

[03:11:28] Alec: Coherence, vibrance, resilience, and authenticity in mind, body, and spirit. That's wellness for me.

[03:11:25] Aaron: Beautiful. Well, for the sake of giving a different answer, I'll say-- we talked a lot about sickness on this podcast. There's only one real form of sickness, which is disharmony and only one real form of health or wellness, which is harmony. And so I would define wellness as living in perfect obedience to God's laws. Let's go with that.

[03:11:59] Luke: Boom.

[03:12:00] Josh: Four big mic drops. Tell everybody where they can find you, where they can discover you, where they can experience more of you.

[03:12:06] Luke: lukestorey.com. @lukestoreyy on Instagram, and The Life Stylist Podcast, which this will also be a Life Stylist podcast episode too.

[03:12:16] Josh: This is how to style your life, right here.

[03:12:20] Alec: Yeah, thewayfwrd.com, and forward is spelled F-W-R-D. And you can also find me on Instagram for now @d_alec_zeck.

[03:12:30] Luke: Until you get banned.

[03:12:31] Alec: Knock wood, dude. Yeah, I haven't been deleted in quite a while, so I'm good. But yeah, @d_alec_zeck on Instagram. Roughly the same on Twitter, I think. I don't remember. And then you can also find my podcast at The Way Forward with Alec Zeck on any podcast streaming platform. Thanks for having me, Josh.

[03:12:52] Josh: Yeah. You're so welcome, man. What an honor and a joy.

[03:12:54] Aaron: Yeah. I'm the same everywhere. It's Aaron Abke on YouTube, Instagram. aronabkey.com. Easy.

[03:12:16] Josh: Yeah. So as we say goodbye, it's like we've explored so many things. Y'all figured out for yourself. None of this is what you should do. Just explore it, and live it, and wear it, and be it in the way that you would like to do it. So until we see you again on another Quadcast, we're all wishing you love and wellness. We'll talk to you soon.